The North

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

I really don't think I have Jacques. And I wasn't just referring to the OP anyway - the whole thread, and loads of similar threads before it, have an undertone of "London is shit, I couldn't bear to live there, I can't think why people in London don't move up North for "quality of life". The very narrow point that Southerners have an odd view of "the North" I agree with - I agreed with it in my first post upthread, but that is not the only point the OP and others were trying to make, as has been pointed out by others.

I don't understand the stereotype really. Dds dad is from a small town near Bath. I'm from a small town in the NW. I was gobsmacked at how behind the times his town was. The pubs shut at 11, no 24 hour supermarkets, no 24 hour taxis, no real takeaways, no cinema, no cafes. I remember phoning a taxi on a weekday afternoon and being told "it will be with you in half an hour, 40 minutes" I laughed and said "no, now please" I genuinely thought he was joking..

And I wasn't just referring to the OP anyway - the whole thread, and loads of similar threads before it, have an undertone of "London is shit, I couldn't bear to live there, I can't think why people in London don't move up North for "quality of life"

Do you miss all the “cultural wasteland” type posts?

If someone posts “I love london, it’s just perfect for me”, great. That isn’t the issue.

I was born in London and it was a great place to be young. I now live in that posh ward of Sheffield mentioned by the OP. I love this city, it is just the right size. Also the Peak District is pretty much in our back yard.

Every part of the country has its good points and bad points. It's impossible to say that one part is universally better than another. You have to choose what's suited to your tastes, finances and work situation, and make the best of it.

Do you miss all the “cultural wasteland” type posts? I think everyone sees in posts what they want to see, really. I have seen those posts. I have also seen people try to explain what it is about London cultural life that they particularly appreciate and get told they have no idea. I grew up up North. My family still live there, in four different areas mentioned upthread as being particuarly fantastic places to live. Do they have culture? Yes. Is it exactly the same in terms of breadth and variety of London? No. That's not necessarily to say it's overall a worse place to live though. It's a bit like when people say my kids must be "starved of nature" living in London. I point out that no they are not, they go to forest school, they go pond dipping, we climb trees on the Heath, we visit the countryside for the holidays. But if I was to say the experience of the natural world they get here is equal to anywhere else in the UK I would be talking bollocks.

Oh god, OP you've opened a can of worms here and the London bashing has begun! Why can't we ALL just accept that the UK is FULL of beautiful places and wonderful people, in the north, the midlands, the south, Wales, Scotland, NO, and YES, even in London! AND there are shitty places and inequality EVERYWHERE too!

Please, I can't stand it when people say "I wouldn't care if I never saw London again". How sad. I WOULD care if I never saw it again, and the same goes for all the other wonderfully diverse places in the UK. There are beautiful places across our country. Let's celebrate what we have.

I can't stand it when people say "I wouldn't care if I never saw London again". How sad

Why is it sad that people enjoy different places?

London does absolutely nothing for me. That doesn’t mean anything other than it’s not a place I enjoy, it isn’t a criticism of London or the people who do love it.

Why is that sad?

We have loads of fantastic museums, Opera North, Northern Ballet, theatres, stately homes, excellent restaurants, etc. etc

As a kid I don’t think I could have afforded, been interested or even persuaded an adult to come with me to go to any of those things even if I had wanted to go.

I'm always bemused by the blanket statements on here that houses in the North are cheap. Mine fucking wasn't

Agree in the area I lived the 3 bed terraces were £8k more than our first house 3 bed terrace in London a few years later

FWIW I did move out of London for 12 years.

When we moved back we were financially better off.

Even our council tax on a bigger house was a few pounds cheaper

As a kid I don’t think I could have afforded, been interested or even persuaded an adult to come with me to go to any of those things even if I had wanted to go

That’s just an interest/situation thing not a London vs elsewhere thing surely? If you weren’t interested in that type of thing in Manchester, would you have been in London?

I couldn't agree more, OP. London is more like a village on steroids than most people like to admit

Once they realise they can sell their flat in London, and buy a 5-bed in Millhouses or Fulwood with the Peak District as their back yard for the same money, they'll all want to come here. This sort of post is disingenous too as you're not comparing like for like. I could do that, but if I did, it'd be London I owed really - the career opportunities, the higher salaries, the silly property price inflation that results from that, etc etc. My family who live in the North with equivalent qualifications and work ethic to me don't live in 5 bedroom houses in Millhouses. One lives pretty much exactly there actually but in a rented 2 bedroom flat and is likely to move out to get on the property ladder. The lifestyle described here is the privileged equivalent of someone living in a grand Hampstead mansion- it's not right to pretend this "quality of life" is attainable by all.

According to one poster about those who like living in London: " those who choose to live there as a bit dim"

I am from the North West, I live in London and have done for all my adult life. I visit home to see family and old friends but I would never live there. I don't judge those that do. Each to their own. I love living in London but appreciate it's not for everyone.

Accusing those that live in the South East (which isn't just London you know) of having narrow minded views about the North whilst making sweeping judgements of all Londoners is hypocritical.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met.

Well I guess I fall into that category because until I was in my late teens I didn't get the opportunity to explore much of the UK as my parents were immigrants with zero family in the UK. Therefore all holidays were spent visiting their home country. I would say that's common for many born & bred Londoners since a high % have at least 1 immigrant parent. However I tend to find most "London" stereotypes are based on people that didn't grow up here. Most born & bred Londoners are polite ime. As another poster said there is a weird belief that if you're a Londoner you either live like the Middleton's or like a character from Top Boy.

I think parts of the North are beautiful & could happily settle there although weather is a bit of an issue however that would mean moving away from my family & community which is a big pull.

I'm always bemused by the blanket statements on here that houses in the North are cheap. Mine fucking wasn't

I agree, there are some very expensive areas in the north.

I think the blanket statements are driven by the bottom-end price brackets and encompass 'the north' as a whole - there are areas in the north where you can get a terraced house for under £50k, which would be unheard of in the whole of London and the south east. I.e. in the north there are cheap pockets which simply don't exist in the same way in L & SE.

Once they realise they can sell their flat in London, and buy a 5-bed in Millhouses or Fulwood with the Peak District as their back yard for the same money, they'll all want to come here

I couldn’t think of anything worse

Completely isolated yet with people who want to know your business so they can have something to gossip about.

No work, no income.

And a view of the Bleak district

The BBC is terribly London-centric, though. It wasn't until someone died that they started giving coverage to the devastating floods in Yorkshire over the last two days.

I agree, OP. I like visiting London but goodness I’m glad I don’t live there. I get back to the soft clean air of north Lancashire and breathe a sigh of relief.

But I just look on those parochial Londoners with a mix of amusement and pity. I have a gorgeous big house, a 10 minute commute (by foot) and enough time and cash to enjoy myself.

I tend to feel a bit sorry for people with such limited views of this beautiful country of ours. But you know, let them keep their narrow views - at least they stay away from the North and leave it for the rest of us to enjoy. Let’s keep it secret how great those cities of the North are.

On a more serious note, though, that ignorance and neglect of the North is a serious obstacle to the real possibilities of development of this country.

they are always being hounded to justify what is better about it than A.N other city

The only hounding to justify anything I can see on this thread is the poster who asked for a list of venues that can rival London.

If people are happy in London then crack on, enjoy it, live there. London has loads to offer.
It’s the posters who say that they would miss the theatres, museums and parks as if anywhere outside London is a cultural wasteland that get to me.

There was a thread a while ago where people were shocked that a poster had never been to London. She said that she didn’t like crowds and didn’t really want to go. Someone honestly suggested that she should go to Richmond Park. That she should spend all the time and money on a train to go from her house in the actual countryside to go to Richmond Park. The poster who suggested it said that it was better than the countryside....l.l

I am a Lodoner but I like "the North".

I particularly like Liverpool and Manchester, especially its Northern Quarter and The Printworks area.

Lodoner? loll

Foreigner living in London here. If DH was amenable I'd happily move to a large Northern city; I think our quality of life would skyrocket. I always notice that Northern colleagues and friends really identify with and sort of "promote" (not exactly, but for lack of a better word) their hometowns; there's a real sort of affection sometimes mixed with frustration that I find really interesting. I'm only, 10 years in, starting to notice media under-representation etc.

The ooh but culture point drives me a bit nuts. Leaving aside how many museums there are wherever, if you're in your thirties or older, hand on heart how frequently do you go to the museum/opera/theatre? I'm keen, we are NT members, Tate members, we get discounted ROH tickets thanks to DH's work... I reckon we go maybe four times a year. And London is vast, and not quick to traverse! Toddler DD goes to the Cutty Sark/Maritime Museum at Greenwich near-weekly, but I could get her to France faster than to the Imperial War Museum or Kew Gardens. So I wouldn't personally be choosing where to live based on the density of "culture".

@JacquesHammer is IS sad when people say they NEVER want to even visit somewhere. I'm not talking about actually living there. Of course we all have our preferences in terms of our day to day lifestyle. I'm a city person, but would hate to be told I could NEVER visit, say, the Peak District again. I just wish everyone would get out and explore, and above all value the beautiful places and people we have across the whole country from country to city, north to south.