The North

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

[Stooshie8]

In theory these City based firms could make more use of technology and let staff work from home. So they could live anywhere. This is happening a bit and might change the London centrified situation we have now.

[user1497207191]

Now obviously the City isn't going to relocate to Cumbria or Gwynedd any time soon, but there are things we could do to mitigate the impact that we aren't doing.

I agree. Big firms and organisations used to have regional offices, so people all over the UK could get decent jobs, whether manual, admin, management or professional. Now it's all centralised in the capital and for those organisatons that do have satellite branches, they're often just a token gesture with minimal staffing. A lot of the "quality" employment has retreated to London. That just sucks even more people into the city making the overcrowding, costs etc even worse and leaves ghost towns all over the UK where youngsters simply never return to their home towns after uni - simply because of lack of quality jobs. It's completely unsustainable.

[Ginfordinner]

That's true Jacques. We don't have electrification on our line, and I can't see that happening soon. I think they will get some more DMUs eventually.

[JacquesHammer]

We still have the pacer trains round here which are essentially buses built as trains

Ah yes, but they can run when the rest of the electric system is down

[Ginfordinner]

I think you have summed it up very well zonkin. I have a foot in both camps and would prefer to keep everything about where we live the same except for the weather and public transport.

We still have the pacer trains round here which are essentially buses built as trains. They were built in the 1980s and only meant to last for 20 years. Northern Rail are more commonly known as Northern Fail these days as only 50% of their trains run on time as a result of using aged rolling stock.

[zonkin]

So those living in the North are happy and those living in the South are happy. Some people from both sides make sweeping judgements about the North/South/London. The people who make those generalisations won't change their mind. The people who are happy where they live won't move. So everyone is happy and some people have bigoted views. So what.

[DawnOfTheDeadleg]

The problem with the argument that London is an asset for all of us and that we're not in competition is that actually, to some extent we are. For government spending. There isn't an infinite pot of money unless you're trying to bribe the DUP so it does in fact matter quite a lot that, for example, transport infrastructure in London is given priority over that in other regions. It is important that this is understood. It's just as important to the whole picture as the revenues London brings in.

The fact that, for example, transport infrastructure across the Pennines is so poor, that has an economic impact on the north and the people living in it. If we had the same spent on us per head as Londoners do, that would benefit the region. Or even if we just split it down the middle. And it could be much worse: the East of England gets a pitiful amount.

It isn't really to the advantage of anyone in the UK, including people who want to live in London, that we are so centralised. The situation in the south east is utterly ridiculous. This thread essentially started as an opportunity for people who are on a reasonable income in the north of England to talk about what a nice quality of life it is and how much further your money goes, and that's true, but the flipside is that it's a real problem that even people on what sound like quite high incomes, let alone the actually poor ones, are having to spend so much on basic necessities in so many areas of the south. Now obviously the City isn't going to relocate to Cumbria or Gwynedd any time soon, but there are things we could do to mitigate the impact that we aren't doing. It's not running London down to suggest that, because I don't think what we're doing now is working particularly well for many people who live in the south east either.

[ClientListQueen]

I live up north and am pretty happy here. Previously lived (as a child) in Oxford, Bristol etc
I live 3 mins from the motorway, about 10 mins from town, maybe a 40 min drive to Trafford Centre (which yes has a selfridges!)
I don't tend to "do" stuff because I never have the time but there is events on, things I could go to, free things. There's a beautiful park along by the river which has a great pub and often lots going on there
My stables is a 20 min drive and the countryside there is some of the most beautiful, it's completely open too as in you can ride/dog walk across all the area, no fences or restrictions for the most part and the views make me feel like I've come home
Downside is the weather, it was named the wettest city a few years ago!

[Allegorical]

Shhh OP, I really don’t want all those southerners to realise what a great life we all have up here. They might move up!
But yeah I am from the North west and went to uni in the South/ south west.
A lot of my fellow uni friends settled around Bristol/ Oxford/Swindon. I moved back oop north. They all took the mic out of my V light northern accent. A few couldn’t understand why I would move back? One said I would end up marrying a northerner and get trapped there. I had the pic of jobs and could have moved anywhere at the time. But I had seen the light. I got on the house market quicker than anyone else. I have a much better quality of life than my peers. We are all in similar jobs with similar wages but my money goes further. I think if you are in a civil service type job NHS, teaching etc then it makes sense to live in the north especially as we all earn simulate wages. Yeah I did marry a fellow northerner. He earns over 6 figures. Definately not trapped. I live in a lovely leafy, middle class village now. Pity my friends stuck in Swindon! Grim.

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

On the weather side, it is very variable in the north. Mainly because we have the Pennines cutting across. I can only assume it has never occurred to a certain poster that there are differences. For example, York is not much different from London in terms of how much rain it gets.

[chomalungma]

What I don't understand is all the 'London bashing', as though it's 'them and us'. It's not - we're all on the same team. London is something we should all take pride in

It would be nice if lots of money and investment didn't just go to London. There are other big cities in the UK.

At least that seems to have been recognised now.

[Leafyhouse]

I think that @posterlongestlurkerever did an excellent post that unfortunately got buried in an argument about train timetables.

I was born 'n' bred in Sheffield (Fulwood specifically), moved down to London, won't ever go back. Can't stand the Bleak District, can't stand a lot of the mentality. But I totally understand why lots of people would love it there.

What I don't understand is all the 'London bashing', as though it's 'them and us'. It's not - we're all on the same team. London is something we should all take pride in. After all, if the Agricultural Bank of China is looking to locate its first International branch, it was never going to be a fight between New York, Frankfurt and Wakefield, was it? We have a world-class city, the biggest city in Europe, of which we should all be proud. Yes, we need to sort out investment in the North, but let's not bash London - it's one of the best national assets we've got.

[Dowser]

I love yorkshire too
We have amazing scenery and the autumn trees have been beautiful

[Dowser]

Sunderland always declares the result first.
We saw an amazing production of as you like it in Yorks pop up Shakespearean theatre which was brilliant on both counts btw
For £12
That was for the groundlings with an excellent view
£12😱 Bargain
Some cinemas charge that

[MulticolourMophead]

There's also places like Birmingham, Nottingham, Lincoln....I don't think they're 'Northern' but they aren't South.

I'm from the East Midlands. People seem to forget that we aren't either North or South.

[chomalungma]

Im always called posh and snobby and i must have loads of money and i cant handle the cold or hard work because im southern

In general, the South East - at least the Home Counties area - does seem to be more affluent than much of Northern England. When you think of the areas near the big Northern cities, there does not seem to be as much money and wealth as in the areas around London and the Home Counties. However, having worked and lived in London,, I am more than aware of the areas of deprivation.

It does seem though that the South East -esp the Home Counties and London - gets a lot more money spent on it compared to other parts of the UK. At least that has been recognised by the political parties now.

I do also know that there are areas in the South East outside of the Home Counties where there is deprivation. The coastal towns for example.

And then there's the rest of the 'South' - which is world's apart from the South East.

I have been lucky and have lived in London, the South East and Northern England.

Each has it ups and downs. But I love Yorkshire.

[Mydogmylife]

Personally I get a bit chippy when folk refer to The North' when really they mean the north of England, not the north of the U.K. Living in Scotland the north means Inverness etc not Newcastle! That's south!!

[JacquesHammer]

My boyfriend is from the north and all he ever does is bitch about the south

He sounds a delight.

[GeePipe]

Sickof yes! The areas you described is where i am from. Has a local nickname and is basically the crack den on the south but nope im posh and rich apparently.

[GeePipe]

I see it from both sides. Im from the south and a very poor destitute town where unemployment and drug addiction rules. My boyfriend is from the north and all he ever does is bitch about the south as do most northerners i meet here. Im always called posh and snobby and i must have loads of money and i cant handle the cold or hard work because im southern. Works both ways.

[JacquesHammer]

ReceptacleForTheRespectable

That place looks amazing! Thank you. Will be making a visit.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

SIL is amazed we can get proper parmesan here



On the topic of cheese, I highly recommend this place: www.thecourtyarddairy.co.uk

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

YANBU OP. I grew up in London, but have spent my entire adult life in 'The North'. Londoners are extremely parochial ime (and I include my former self in that). Many of my friends who have never lived outside London are ignorant about the rest of the UK to an embarrassing degree.

[Fatshedra]

I lived in Aberdeenshire -- I remember one election the commentator on the BBC saying 'we've just got in the results for the north-east' - I thought blimey that's quick. Of course it wasn't my NE it was the south's NE ie Hull!!
Ridiculous.

[CountFosco]

It does have a theatre though, but it's a bit tiny

And even the Londoners in my family have enjoyed the pantomime here