The North

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

[JacquesHammer]

is IS sad when people say they NEVER want to even visit somewhere

I just don’t feel that. I’ve visited London. I cant see going again. It does nothing for me. That isn’t sad, it’s a good thing - it means I use my leisure and travel time to do things I really want to!

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

Olivers, Fulwood and Millhouses are suburbs in the prosperous southwest of Sheffield, plenty of jobs and money, average amounts of gossip.

I didn't start this thread to bash southerners, that wasn't my intention at all, I love visiting London and other areas in the south, I'm a great explorer of this country. My point was, as many PPs have realised, that there are some odd, patronising, and stereotyped views about the north, I've seen many times on threads about 'lack of opportunity' or professional jobs or access to culture which simply isn't the case and it always bemuses me.

[longestlurkerever]

Essential hummus that's exactly the type of post i mean although you do live in London. Why do i have to justify liking the variety of culture on offer and appreciating this about where i live? I do happen to go to museums and galleries often - less so the theatre, except children's theatre, as it is not really my thing and is expensive but gigs yes. But even if i didn't, so what? You don't appreciate that about London but i do.

The story about Richmond park did make me lol though!

[Oliversmumsarmy]

ILikeyourHairyHands

I am from the North, further north than Sheffield and one of my first memories was thinking there had been some terrible mistake and I should not have been born there.

We went to London when I was about 5 and thought it was so much better.

Really wanted to move to London.

[EssentialHummus]

But even if i didn't, so what?

It's up to you - your decision, your mortgage, your money etc - but for me if I choose to live somewhere because of "the culture" I damn well better be making use of that culture enough to justify that as a reason. I find it really illogical when people say that they love the culture/museum/theatres in London but on talking to them further they haven't engaged with any of it for a long while or do so infrequently enough that they could live wherever and just take the train down a few times a year. To me it sounds like a vegetarian telling me they appreciate how many steakhouses are in the area.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Sorry posted too soon.

Our area was akin to the film Northern Soul. Same terraced houses with no bathroom and an outside toilet.

So whilst everyone is going on about culture and how many theatres they can get to remember not everyone can afford to go to the theatre.

At least in London there are loads of free things to do (outside going into museums) and transport is free for under 11s or free buses for those aged 11-16.

I really hated growing up where I lived. Everything I wanted to do was in London.

I left as soon as I could.

[longestlurkerever]

It's part of what generates a buzz though isn't it? Social mobility in London is higher than in many other places-
. Anyway, i do go to museums etc a lot. Dd is studying Egyptians and i like that we can pop to the British museum and the new exhibition at the Saatchi gallery etc just on a casual last minute excursion. But if i say that someone will pop up and say "we have Egyptians in x local museum" or that the tube takes a long time or whatever. Which is all true, but is sort of missing the point.

[JacquesHammer]

At least in London there are loads of free things to do (outside going into museums)

What are the things you can only do in London for free?

[Sonti]

@Runningonempty84 lol my dsis has a beautiful home in Fulwood but would move back to London in a heartbeat if she could.

[MadisonMontgomery]

I went to uni for about 5 minutes ‘down south’. It was eye opening - despite coming from a wealthy rural area, being the child of two professional parents and attending private schools everyone I met at uni was convinced I must have grown up in poverty. People didn’t believe me that I was only entitled to the minimum student loan, when they were on the full whack, and were genuinely shocked when I had any items of value.

[Answerthequestion]

Once they realise they can sell their flat in London, and buy a 5-bed in Millhouses or Fulwood with the Peak District as their back yard for the same money, they'll all want to come here

I had never heard of these places so looked them up. Granted the houses are cheaper than in London but I wasn’t seeing anything that made me think I’d like to live there. Now a loft apartment in central Manchester now you’re talking but a slightly bigger and cheaper house in the Sheffield suburbs, not for me. Sorry but no.

[DawnOfTheDeadleg]

The lifestyle described here is the privileged equivalent of someone living in a grand Hampstead mansion- it's not right to pretend this "quality of life" is attainable by all.

That's very true, but the other part of the quality of life argument is that while that's a privileged elite you describe, one can have a decent quality of life on an unremarkable income in most of northern England. Whereas this ability is being hollowed away from those living in the south east. There are certainly pockets where you can't, of course, but generally speaking if you can't live a modestly comfortable existence on perhaps 35k as a family in a particular area of the north, there will be somewhere not too far away where it's doable. The same is true of a lot of Wales, Scotland and NI too of course.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Dd and her friends would spend their days walking down the South Bank or around Covent Garden to watch the street performers or in the summer holidays in Hyde park sunbathing, they all learned to roller skate and skate board there.

You can’t do that in the North because the weather is so bad (I lived there for 18 years) you might manage a few days of nice weather before it rains.
And it always has that dampness in the air.

Dd spent weeks of her childhood with her friends in Central London.

Sometimes they would go round Selfridges or the big stores on Oxford Street or Westfield window shopping.

Then there is the free outdoor theatre.

Friends lived in Greenwich and there seemed to be always something going on there.

I would give her money but she rarely spent it.

Museums were for winter. Take their own food and meet up in the Science museum basement. Chairs, tables for as long as they wanted

[chomalungma]

It's true about the lack of evening public transport.

I think that people in cities outside of London are much more likely to use their car to get around, as public transport is a bit crap.

There is some data about car ownership in London vs the rest of the country.

[dottiedodah]

People always seem to bracket London with the South East as though it were the only area south of Birmingham .I lived in London as a child, and although I like to go back for days out and so on ,just could not imagine living there now.We live along the South Coast and I love living here ,a short drive to the Beach, and house prices while by no means cheap, are nothing like Londons inflated market !.There are good and bad areas of the same towns up and down the whole of UK.We are blessed by the sunny climate here though ,and save on heating bills as we are in the warmest /driest part of the Country.

[DawnOfTheDeadleg]

This is where lumping the north in all together isn't helpful. Manchester has one of the busiest bus routes in Europe, which is completely irrelevant to your life if you're in a rural area at the same latitude with one bus a day.

People living in the rural north would have more in common with the poster upthread in the Bucks countryside where there are no buses on Sundays than they would with someone living in West Didsbury. I've always lived in a well provisioned northern city and have no real understanding of what it's like to be without meaningful public transport access.

[chamenanged]

• Dd and her friends would spend their days walking down the South Bank or around Covent Garden to watch the street performers or in the summer holidays in Hyde park sunbathing, they all learned to roller skate and skate board there.
  
  You can’t do that in the North because the weather is so bad (I lived there for 18 years) you might manage a few days of nice weather before it rains.*
  
  Have you hit your head on something? Do you truly believe that children in the North of England can't go out and roller skate or skateboard?
  
  Sometimes they would go round Selfridges or the big stores on Oxford Street or Westfield window shopping.
  
  Again, do you truly think going to Selfridges is something children in the North can't do? Do you think Selfridges in the North are just kept empty or what?

[Jimdandy]

This is why I like being from Leicester.

People forget there is a “Midlands” (northerners call is southerner and vice versa) so we get to stereotype and make fun of both generalisations 😀

[JacquesHammer]

You can’t do that in the North because the weather is so bad (I lived there for 18 years) you might manage a few days of nice weather before it rains

Oh for goodness sake what nonsense.

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

Yes Olivers, young people don't go outside in the north, certainly no skateboarding or rollerskating going on up here. And we're all a bit damp. And mouldy. And have outside loos.

[WizzyBee]

oooo, @doobigetta - I'm in Nether Green!

[DawnOfTheDeadleg]

Yes, that is quite a strange claim. Of all the things London offers that you can't get anywhere else, why pick window shopping in a chain that has several branches across the country and roller skating?!

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

I don't think Olivers is aware that there are Selfridges outside London Chame. She probably thinks it's all Arkwight and Granville style corner-shops.

[x2boys]

Well.the weather isn't that bad where i.live in greater Manchester ,and living surrounded by the penines we are shielded from the worst of the bad weather ,so when we all.had the "Beast from the East " a couple of years ago whilst the it showed etc but our schools were not closed unlike a lot of schools in the UK ,and we seem to get some lovely weather in the spring and summer .

[userxx]

@Oliversmumsarmy 🤣🤣🤣 you're making us northerners sound like gossipy fishwives. I certainly don't give a flying fuck about some random person.