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The North

301 replies

ILikeyourHairyHands · 08/11/2019 22:18

I've seen yet another thread where the OP is lambasted for being in a SE bubble (she was in a bubble tbf, but a bubble of incredible dimness), and many posters talk about The North as a place of scant opportunities, cheap housing, low wages and general divorce from The South, which is generally considered as the land of milk, honey, opportunity and high house prices.

It's very divorced from my experience of both places. I'm from an area in The North that is one of the wealthiest political wards in Europe, I went to work in the city after University (25 years ago) and despite having a very middle-class upbringing and accent, my flat vowels were treated as something of a curiosity (and they're really not that flat, everyone up here considers them 'southern') and Sheffield, my home city was, and still is, perceived as being some 'flat cap and whippets' place, despite having one of the highest proportions of professionals per capita in the UK.

My take from that experience was that born and brought-up Londoners are the most parochial people that I'd ever met. I had a much more 'worldly' experience being brought up in thr middle-class North than that of the supposedly urbane Southerners.

But still it goes on, people speak of The North as some kind of otherworldly shit-hole where the denizens scrabble around for cheap terraces on MW jobs and anything worth happening happens in The South.

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

I just cannot understand the stereotypes that divide us so badly.

And yes, I also know and understand industrialisation and post-industrialisation that has affected certain areas of the UK. I'd say the area of the UK that's been hit worst by post-industrialism is the Midlands though. But no-one talks about that, or the poverty in the SW, it's always THE NORTH.

OP posts:
ColdRainAgain · 09/11/2019 10:44

chomalungma I'd say that's a pretty reasonable line. I was going to say Derby is definitely not north, so using the Peak District as a divider for the middle makes sense to me.

I know Sheffield has suffered, but here, up north, weve had less than a cm of rain since mid week. Not all the north has been battered by rain - although there were some very black skies with rainbows yesterday.

atankofskunks · 09/11/2019 10:51

I agree OP. I live in Cumbria. My dh had a job offer recently in Kent and we considered a move and decided against it because, to be honest, we couldn't find anywhere half way as lovely as where we are.

QueenOfWinterfell · 09/11/2019 10:54

I’ve lived in various parts of the South and think that Broomhall and its surrounding area is far more beautiful and cultured than lots of areas dahn sarf

Artus · 09/11/2019 10:56

On a similar thread I once saw it stated in all seriousness that it wasn't possible to be middle class in the north or Midlands. Harrogate in particular was mentioned, anyone thinking they were middle class living there was deluded, the writer had once seen a drug addict in Macdonald's.

NameChange84 · 09/11/2019 10:59

I'm laughing my head off at the apparent fact that we don't have a variety of of concert halls or theatres outside of London Grin. How little does that poster know! My bank balance tells a vastly different story.

QueenOfWinterfell · 09/11/2019 11:02

I'm always bemused by the blanket statements on here that houses in the North are cheap. Mine fucking wasn't.

Exactly!! This is so true.

Ginfordinner · 09/11/2019 11:04

We would both miss the variety of things like theatres and concert halls outside of London

I live near Barnsley which is not exactly known for its culture, and within its borough it has several museums, an art gallery (which had a Picasso exhibition a couple of years ago), three theatres, two independent cinemas, a couple of stately homes, a garden that is now in partnership with the National Trust, Barnsley Youth choir, which is ranked 5th in the World Rankings in its category and has won 8 first prizes in some of the biggest international competitions in the world. We also have some stunning countryside on our doorstep.

I go to the theatre in Sheffield and Barnsley far more often than I ever did in London, and not every production I go to is a poor am dram production. Some of the theatre companies that perform round here are semi professional and many of the performers go on to bigger and better things.

OhTheRoses · 09/11/2019 11:06

Covent Garden
Colliseum
Sadlers Wells
Barbican
Albert Hall
Queen Elizabeth Hall
Cadogan Hall
Royal Festival Hall

Notwithstanding the theatres. Could those saying there is as much culture in the north name the venues within a ten mile radius please. I'd be most interested.

user1497207191 · 09/11/2019 11:07

Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Durham, York, the smaller towns and places where there's a huge amount of creativity, wealth creation, and professional people living fine and prosperous lives, and have for generations.

You deal realise "The North" is a big place. Many people won't be anywhere near those places.

Take Lancaster/Kendal area - 30 years ago, there were head offices of insurance/pension firms, regional branches of national/international firms (accountants, solicitors, etc), regional offices of big banks, regional offices of British Telecom and Post Office, tax offices etc. That;s just "office/professional" jobs - there was also big industry, paper manufacturers, breweries, print works, textile factories, etc. All that's gone and hasn't been replaced. You can't realistically commute to the towns you mention due to poor transport infrastructure. So it's just left a vacuum. In Lancaster, the "best" jobs are now working for the hospital or the university. No regional offices of national/international firms anymore - all been centralised into the major cities, especially London and S/E. That's the problem - not only the "offshoring" but also the concentration into London/SE.

JacquesHammer · 09/11/2019 11:08

Could those saying there is as much culture in the north name the venues within a ten mile radius please

Why 10 miles? I could be at a number of cities via train with an array of choice in terms of cultural offerings quicker than various journeys across london Grin

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 09/11/2019 11:10

I'm a Southerner who's lived up north for the last 15 years.

Swings and roundabouts. It's cheaper up here but the weather's awful. The food is generally nicer, though.

No difference in relative friendliness of people, although I have encountered a few people (men, really) who don't take you seriously if you don't have a northern accent. You can see them thinking 'Oh, aye, what's this soft southern shite?' when you're trying to make a point.

NerrSnerr · 09/11/2019 11:11

Life is just different wherever you live and you need to take advantage of the good bits of your area. I live in the SW, we don't have a massive long list of concert halls (we have a couple of theatres in the local area) but we do have amazing countryside within walking distance, fun traditions (cheese rolling etc) and stuff like that.

SeaSidePebbles · 09/11/2019 11:14

Haha, the great north-south divide😂. I have the solution, folks!
Right, from a forriner’s point of view (I’ve lived here 25 odd years), I’d like to be surrounded by northerners but living in the South. So can everybody swap now, please. 😂

NameChange84 · 09/11/2019 11:18

Well I can't be bothered to do the whole of my area because there is alot within the same travelling distance as there was when I lived in London.

But let's take just Manchester and just off the top of my head

The Bridgewater (complete with The Halle)
Stoller Hall
Albert Hall
RNCM and Cheetham's are both venues as well as training institutions
The Dancehouse
The Opera House
The Royal Exchange
The Palace
The Lowry which has several theatres and studio spaces
Similarly HOME
Contact
Hope Mill
The Apollo
The Arena also hosts classical music and dance
Band on the Wall
The Edge

And then, of course many more "pop ups" when it's The Manchester International Fringe or when Roundabout show up every year.

And that's just part of Manchester, excluding most of Greater Manchester.

user1497207191 · 09/11/2019 11:24

Well I can't be bothered to do the whole of my area because there is alot within the same travelling distance as there was when I lived in London.

Travelling distance means nothing if public transport doesn't run late. Tonight, for example, there are no trains from Manchester North to say Preston, Lancaster, etc. after early evening. So completely useless for anyone going to theatre in Manchester tonight unless you want to pay for a hotel. Whereas 24 hour public transport in London I believe???

Ginfordinner · 09/11/2019 11:25

London is bigger, and it is the capital city so it stands to reason that there is more of everything there. But the argument propagated by many posters (I'm not suggesting that you are BTW) is that the north is a cultural desert, which it clearly isn't.

Interestingly, of the 33 sites of National Museums in England (I haven't included Scotland and Wales in these figures) 13 of them are in London, so yes they do have more, but 20 of them are outside of London - 9 of them in Liverpool alone. (Figures from Wikipedia)

Candlebarbara · 09/11/2019 11:27

My partner and I have jobs which we could, in theory, do in a number of cities across the UK. We have seriously discussed moving to a cheaper part of the country where, for the price of our 2 bed semi, we could afford a much larger house. But, I can’t leave London. I love working in London, I love where I live, which is on the outskirts, easy reach to the city, the countryside and the sea by train.
I met a friend for drinks after work last night, and walked along the Thames, along the south bank, and felt so content.

My London born friend moved to Manchester recently. She loves it, huge house, great schools for her kids, easy access to loads of attractions, countryside etc. She hates the weather though. I am looking forward to visiting, but I’ll stay put down south.

IrmaFayLear · 09/11/2019 11:30

I live down South, and I can tell you that I live in a complete cultural wasteland. Lots of people round here have never been to London, and if they do go, it's a Big Event and they go to Madame Tussauds and the London Eye.

NameChange84 · 09/11/2019 11:31

User I'm genuinely unsure what station you mean by "Manchester North" but I just checked and found several trains running late tonight from the main Manchester Station, Picadilly, to Preston etc. The trams in Manchester are also great for those in the outskirts.

Sure we don't have the same infrastructure as the capital with the underground etc but that's no reason to say we have no culture and can't attend concerts or the theatre.

longestlurkerever · 09/11/2019 11:33

I fucking hate this kind of thread. Why don't any of the Northern posters up sticks and move to one of the other "vibrant, cultural" Northern cities named upthread? Presumably because you are happy where you live, it's home after all. And yet no one accepts that Londoners might feel the same way about way about where they live - they are always being hounded to justify what is better about it than A.N other city, and then are hounded for being narrow minded when they give a response, or told that they must be uber privileged if they do manage to take advantage of the variety London does have to offer. Oh and then the thread descends into "quality of life" one upmanship, where people are made to feel inadequate parents if their kids don't have their own bedroom and a giant garden, despite this being the norm in cities across the world. People like different stuff. I love that there's always something new to explore in London. I love the number of different galleries and shows and events and hidden secrets. I like the transient population and the variety of people you meet, the fact that you feel in the centre of things in à large number of different fields, i like the politics and outlook, the transport links, the architecture and history. I love that the outer boroughs are effectively little villages pieced together with theor own communities, neighbourhood restaurants and theatres, things going on. I like the London definition of community where people won't necessarily say hello to strangers on buses but will build totally new support networks thàt become surrogate family. I love things about other parts of the country too, especially the coast, the hills, natural beauty, the ease of getting out and about- and i am sure i could have an equally lovely, totally different or relatively similar kimd of life elsewhere, one day i might choose to give that a go. But for now, i do love city living and i do love London and whenever i have gone to actively seek out the milk and honey existence described upthread i have found most places come with ups and downs and compromise at the end of the day.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 09/11/2019 11:36

Trains to and from Manchester usually run up to midnight in my area.

JacquesHammer · 09/11/2019 11:37

Presumably because you are happy where you live, it's home after all

I think you’ve missed the entire point of the OP’s post!

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 09/11/2019 11:38

Trains to and from Manchester usually run up to midnight in my area.

I live in west Yorkshire but used to go to events in Manchester a lot (prior to DS being born) and have never had problems getting a train or a night coach home.

AgeLikeWine · 09/11/2019 11:41

Where do people think the North starts?

Using the M1 as an axis, the North starts at Sheffield.

The south starts at Milton Keynes, and the area from Northampton to Chesterfield is the Midlands.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 09/11/2019 11:41

I live in west Yorkshire but used to go to events in Manchester

Yes, and in W. Yorks you have Leeds as an option as well, which also has really good train and bus links.