UK or Irish with a German boyfriend/DH? Cultural insights needed, please!

[Luftschloss]

I'll be upfront and say this is for a novel, but if anyone had any insights into what it was/is like being a British or Irish woman in a relationship with a German man, I'd be really grateful -- cultural differences, differences in dating etiquette, relationship expectations, anything really?

I've spent time in Germany, but not recently, and have never dated a German. Have combed the internet and got a lot of Youtube videos on dating Germans, but they seem both incredibly stereotyped 'You need to be more forward than usual! They make lists! They don't do small talk! They've very blunt!' and to come at things from a very US perspective, so any further insights would be great.

(In case it matters, this German character is late 20s and a postdoc, an outdoor/climbing type of person, and lives in London when they meet. Tell me what brands of clothing he would be wearing?)

Sorry I can't add much but regarding the climbing equipment/clothing brands I would look into whether they would indeed wear North Face stuff like everyone else. I think it's a US brand and also a fashion brand - i.e. you see people wearing it that haven't been near a mountain. Depending on how keen a climber your character is he might have more specialist, less well known German branded equipment. E.g. there's a brand in Sweden for sports luggage/equipment (not climbing) that I've only just heard of - Thule. I doubt it's popular in the UK or US but is in Sweden and increasingly on the European mainland so there might be something similar for mountaineering specifically in Germany - an older brand perhaps, known for its quality but perhaps not known outside of Germany. There must be many such brands in the UK too although some brands from different countries suddenly take off internationally like the Fjallraken rucksack brand, or whatever it is called.

I think detail like that is important and getting it wrong puts me off a book so you're right to try and get it right so don't just put him in North Face. North Face might be right but not necessarily. For a serious climber it might be laughed at.

The directness thing is true.

There's also a culture of really hard work as far as I can see (awaits sniping)

The humour is rather different because word play doesn't work as well in german as the language is more precise - the word meanings are more defined. But there's a lot of humour there!

ime there isn't quite as high an emphasis on taking other people into account, but I may be wrong.

There is a rule for bloody everything and I'm not quite sure if that's because they are all basically pretty lawless or because they are all very law abiding!

Slippers!

Sorry pressed too soon.
They are obsessed with slippers, just 1 bare toe on a floor and you will instantly die of pneumonia

We were in a campsite in France, our neighbours were German and Dutch. The German dogs were horrified one evening when the Dutch dog dashed onto their deck and stole their dinner. There was a minor diplomatic incident between the owners. All through very correct English.

A very popular outdoorsy and hiking brand is Jack Wolfskin.

Long-term Berliner here

I agree that it's crucial to determine where in Germany your character comes from - not just Berlin or Bavaria, urban or rural, but also East or West. Even 30 years after the Wende, some people in the East can be lacking in self-confidence by comparison. I find a lot of West German men frankly arrogant as hell.

Lots of social attitudes and expectations get drilled into young kids here, at nursery at the latest.

• Environmental awareness - that starts with always turning off the water while brushing your teeth (my 4yo daughter started telling us off by saying 'Wasserverschwendung!' whenever she caught us, and she learned that from nursery). Not caring about environmental matters is literally viewed as a sin.
• Wrapping up warmly as protection against the weather, and dressing practically being more important than fashion. That's important - it's cold here in winter. People will have learned it from their grandparents, for whom it will have been literally life or death.
• No real embarrassment about the body. I've been naked in saunas after climbing when the only other people there were male strangers. It's really not a problem because there is no erotic element, and your climbing character wouldn't see it as a problem either. Au contraire, he would find it utterly bewildering and disgusting that people wear costumes in the sauna in the UK. Filthy habit!
• Certain things are just not done or tolerated. Children are not allowed to put the soles of their shoes on seats, and that carries over to adulthood. When you go into a doctor's surgery you're supposed to say 'good day' to everyone waiting (I still find that excruciatingly embarrassing).

I find German men in particular are obsessed with not losing face or being shown up. It leads to a lot of mansplaining (but they mansplain each other too). If a German man wants to take up a new hobby he will research everything possible about it, then go to the best specialist shop in town and ask the salesperson countless detailed questions, then buy a whole pile of really top-notch gear. When German guys do something, they have to do it really well.

Your man will be (or will have been) a member of the Deutscher Alpen Verein, and their free magazine is called Panorama.

Someone mentioned he would go to Decathlon for climbing gear in Berlin. It's more complex than that, because it depends what he wants to boast about afterwards. If he wants to show off about the bargainous price he got for gear that's just as good as the expensive stuff, he'll be in Decathlon. But if he wants to show off his insider knowledge, and have a huge discussion with the knowledgeable sales assistant (who will also be a climber, so they can have a boasty pissing contest) then in Berlin he's more likely to be in der Aussteiger, Mont K or Globetrotter. And frankly, Decathlon is a bit downmarket for an image-conscious climber.

Germans have an insurance policy for everything - you could get some fun out of that. Health insurance, house insurance, personal liability, legal, broken glass, sickness... Your man would be frankly incredulous that a Brit doesn't have personal liability insurance.

Ultimately a lot of this is about the image that German men want to project of themselves (cool, a bit wild and rebellious, in control, knowledgeable, nature fan, uses the 'Du' form to everyone whether they like it or not) versus the reality (loves a bargain, likes security, prepared to go Sunday shopping as much as the rest of us if the shops are open, plans things in every detail).

Ended relationhip with a german a few months back (nothing dramatic they just went to mexico for a year). Dont think it would have lasted anyway- they were insufferably woke, even though im a liberal person they'd pick at my words then sulk about any perceived slight to minorities that wasnt there. They also constantly compared everything unfavourrably to germany, especially our buildings. On the other hand they didnt play silly relationship games and was direct and straight forward with answers.

Couldnt say at all myself if these are common characteristics but they do seem familiar to others.

I had a German boyfriend for a short time when I was in my late teens. Linguistically he struggled with the 'th' sound, but otherwise his English was near perfect (my own German skills are poor, but as you're asking OP)..
He and his family were nice, more liberal than my own family, and yes to the piss taking and I'd say direct too.

Their house was more modern and practical/stylish/Scandinavian. IKEA had just opened here so it was a bit like that. They had 'P' shaped steps up to their attic which I'd never seen before and his granny lived in the basement annex.

As I said up the thread, I had him being from Hamburg, but I admit I hadn't given that any thought, and it's entirely switchable -- we never see him in Germany, interacting with any other Germans etc.

He's not a serious climber, more of a general outdoorsy kind of guy -- a highly competent camper, hiker, fisherman etc. If you want to light a campfire, or build a house, he's your man. (Incidentally, is there a Boy Scout type of thing where he might have learnt this, or some other way of becoming outdoor?)

I find German men in particular are obsessed with not losing face or being shown up. It leads to a lot of mansplaining (but they mansplain each other too). If a German man wants to take up a new hobby he will research everything possible about it

What if that's not a hobby as such, but he develops an enthusiasm for another culture/history of a place he's visiting for the first time, but has researched in exhaustive detail? I'm imagining a face-off between him and a native of the other culture, who is far less well-informed about it than he is -- is he likely to point out errors in the other man's knowledge?

Thanks again, everyone. This has been incredibly informative, and I promise you all that this will be used subtly, and not to create a walking cliché!

Everything she said!

Also yes, Sunday shopping. Depending on your character's personal/political leanings, he will either think it's great that in the UK you can shop normally on Sundays, or he will feel very sorry for all the poor workers forced to work on Sunday (more likely the latter).

Also, you should do some research on German academia if you want him to be a postdoc because it is significantly different from the UK/Ireland, there are many more years of study and you are a sort of employee/student usually, working for your supervisor (depending on the field).

It might be helpful to know that in some fields at least, it is expected that you will go for at least a year or two outside of Germany to work after you complete the PhD, before coming back to Germany to try for a permanent position. So that might explain why he's in the UK.

Around Hamburg is pretty flat so maybe not the best place for a climber. Munich would be great.

Agree on the directness but in other respects more polite than in England - greeting everyone is very important, and arguably much more considerate than ‘not wanting to intrude’.

Germans find Ireland romantic, but the drinking culture puzzling. In Ireland, we would often go to the pub after mass on Christmas eve - in Germany that’s Heilige Abend and sacrilegious.

And yes, to doing a job properly, buying quality and organic/recycling. Much less sweets/junk food than in Ireland. No German mum would give crisps in a packed lunch. And having two hot meals a day makes my in-laws panic

German scouts are Pfinders (spelling might be slightly wrong there). There are lots of different German Scout organisations, several of which are religious, basic info available in Wikipedia.

With your character being Irish, the German boyfriend may struggle slightly with Irish names (all the Germans we interacted it really struggled with my DDs Gaelic name- Isla! They don't have the 'isl' sound(

Make sure he thinks that the chemist is a God! He'll seek their advice about anything and everything...in some cases contradicting what the Dr said. He will be happy to provide far too many details in a crowded chemists!
Oh, and if he gets an injury, he'll wrap it in a quark bandage to reduce inflammation. Drs do that in hospitals too...Google "Quarkwickel"for more info!

Breakfast being bread and cheese
Saying I'm going now and leaving from a party, not faffing for half an hour
Liking British humour
Dressing for warmth, not fashion
Actually quite conservative - gay marriage is very recent
Very environmental - don't use fans even though very hot summers
Work is for working, not chatting
Direct
Cornwall and Rosamund pilcher is a thing
In Bavaria, people very much feel they are doing their duty for the country to have two children and deserve tax breaks
Rules are kept to - both good and bad

There was a good article recently in the guardian about Germany and racism around views of gastarbeiter

there are only climbing walls in hamburg. so not really serious climbing unless he fancies a 3 hour drive to the Harz mountains. or illegal free climbing up the elphi.

however there is the fabulous globetrotter shop in barmbek for upmarket outdoor gear.

We expect a mention in your acknowledgements, OP

Not read the whole thread but remember that German men have to do national service, plus degrees and PhDs last a lot longer in Germany than in the UK (around five years each in Germany vs three as standard in the UK). So he would typically have got his PhD at 29ish compared to 24ish for British men.

- is he likely to point out errors in the other man's knowledge?

Goodness yes.

In my experience what I have been known to do he would joyfully provide the corrections and be hurt if the recipient of this largess was not sufficiently grateful for the update.

German men tend to be less comitment shy than some other nationalities. There is not as much faff about we went on this many dates so this and that happens. It tends to become very clear very fast that youre in a relationship.

Tell me what brands of clothing he would be wearing?

Because all German men wear the same brand of clothing? Why would the reader give a shit anyway? If you’re going to go into descriptions about stuff like that then this novel sounds boring as anything. And why decide he’s German when you can’t even figure out the basics of what German people are like for yourself? It sounds like a very contrived way to create a character.

oh yes koka and the fact that many only start school at 7 and might repeat a year at school they might already be 20 or 21 when doing abitur. master or diplom abschluss only mid twenties.

A less well known connection with Ireland are the Irish missionary monks who spread Christianity throughout Europe during the ohh not entirely sure but dark/Middle Ages after the hordes had overcome Europe

Our hero could plausibly have come from Hamburg and have studied Konstanz where he had fallen in love with the Alps - so very different from relatively featureless home on the North German plain.

He might easily be aware of the island of Reichenau and the religious settlements founded by the Irish missionary monks.

In my experience, Hamburg was very, very Anglophile, being Irish was not well known. People in Konstanz all seemed to have a very strong association between Ireland and the missionary monks on the nearby Island of Reichenau

I agree on the dry sense of humour.
I also think, many Germans have a more direct approach when talking about things. They are used to far more recycling than in the UK.
Clothes, I get you, it's what he most likely has available... maybe just Jeans & Shirt? Or think Jack Wolfskin or this: www.sportscheck.com/wandern/