UK or Irish with a German boyfriend/DH? Cultural insights needed, please!

[Luftschloss]

I'll be upfront and say this is for a novel, but if anyone had any insights into what it was/is like being a British or Irish woman in a relationship with a German man, I'd be really grateful -- cultural differences, differences in dating etiquette, relationship expectations, anything really?

I've spent time in Germany, but not recently, and have never dated a German. Have combed the internet and got a lot of Youtube videos on dating Germans, but they seem both incredibly stereotyped 'You need to be more forward than usual! They make lists! They don't do small talk! They've very blunt!' and to come at things from a very US perspective, so any further insights would be great.

(In case it matters, this German character is late 20s and a postdoc, an outdoor/climbing type of person, and lives in London when they meet. Tell me what brands of clothing he would be wearing?)

Oh yes, with the mixer tap in the bathroom. I remember one of my friends complaining about that at her Welsh boyfriend's parents' house. She was annoyed because she likes warm water on her toothbrush not cold, which is something that had never occurred to me as being an expectation.

Other than that, there is a general attitude of not buying shit because it's cheap/got a yellow sticker on it, recycling was a thing decades before we had our first green bins, organic food/eco friendly products were popular but not as an 'aspirational' thing, and yes, potatoes are a food group all on their own.

How about attitudes to public nudity? Pretty routine in my experience growing up in DE from an Irish/British family. When I first came to England it took me a while to understand that nudity (when not part of sex, and even then sometimes) made people feel uncomfortable. Or propositioned.

Discussions of bowel habits at the breakfast table. My GB husband was initially horrified when my DE visitors would reply to a question he felt was pretty safe 'would you like more coffee' with yes, please, I have not yet had a bowel movement today. It didn't seem unusual to me, everyone I shared a house with at Uni in DE would routinely offer each other linseeds asking 'have your bowels moved'. Maybe just me then.

Debt accumulated during university. Pretty unusual in DE, standard and pretty steepish (but not as bad as USA) in UK

Honesty versus small talk. Loads of comedy potential.

Likewise, if they start speaking German to each other, there is potential for him to consider her use of the second person (You/Thou in English , thou is archaic) Du/Sie still very different. I once inadvertently put off a potential boyfriend by using the formal Sie when we said our goodbyes, after a lovely evening getting to know each other. I used a phrase which I was pleased to remember, forgetting it was the formal use. We had been using the familiar all evening. He took it to mean that I wanted to put an end to our getting to know each other. Sigh. I only ever saw him in groups thereafter and it was years before someone told me what had happened.

Attitudes to drunkenness. I'm sure Powell's drank too much at Uni but it was never boasted of and made much of as we tended to do at Uni in UK.

Just my first thoughts, hope you can make some use of it.

You could watch some German comedy/talk shows for some insight into their sense of humour. This is a clip from a German show where a comedian went and spoke to some Brits on the streets about Brexit. After the first few seconds where he introduces it, the rest is in English.

One small thing is that Germans always say cheers, clink glasses properly with each individual while making eye contact with them, every time they have a drink with someone. If you take a sip before saying cheers it's incredibly rude a bit like starting to eat at a dinner party before the host has finished serving everyone and sat down. You do it every single time you have an alcoholic drink which I quite like as I think it makes every drink feel more of a sociable, special occasion.

Speaking of which, Germans would always say some variation of Guten Appetit before starting to eat, I've noticed most of them are so used to this that when they're eating with English-speaking people they tend to say something like "enjoy" because it just feels so wrong to start eating without saying anything.

Shaking hands when introducing people and meeting new people is pretty important too.

Rather than the stereotyping thing you could look up more German social etiquette/cultural differences stuff because these things would apply to almost every German person so can't possibly offend, and unless they've lived abroad for a very long time most people tend to keep a lot of these little cultural habits

Ohh, yes yes to a guest at a dinner party drinking without waiting for the host or at least raising your glass to each in turn and making eye contact.

Cue the crashing of everyone else's cutlery as they rush to pick up their glasses and toast and drink too.

Rapping knuckles on desk to praise rather than clapping.

And yes yes to the shaking hands on first being introduced and again each time you meet

Even in a very lowly, temporary summer job everyone in the team would expect to shake my hand and say hello and again goodbye.

I miss that now. when some people do not every day hello or goodbye.

In regard to the bathroom ‘differences’, I did notice that in many, mostly older, German and Austrian houses/hotels, the lavatory pan design includes a sort of ‘shelf’ (that one could have a good look at one’s...erm...droppings, prior to flushing).

Well, yes @FadedRed but how else would one know what state they are in without being able to see 'em?

Thanks, everyone -- that's really useful. (And also funny, especially the linseed-toting university roommates. )

Given the greater naturalness of non-sexual nudity, is there likely to be greater fluidity in moving from 'sexual' nudity to normal nudity for a German person? I mean, say, something not getting straight back into clothes after daytime sex?

In regard to the bathroom ‘differences’, I did notice that in many, mostly older, German and Austrian houses/hotels, the lavatory pan design includes a sort of ‘shelf’ (that one could have a good look at one’s...erm...droppings, prior to flushing).

In Hungary, too. It made me weirdly self-conscious about it all, like I was producing some kind of art project!

DH is German, obviously there are a lot of stereotypes around but here’s a few things I noticed about him/his family
They think we are quite flippant about things such as The Environment, it’s not a subject for humour
If they think you are wrong or are doing something you shouldn’t they will tell you
If something is true it’s ok to say it
They buy quality to last
They won’t replace something just because it’s old as long as it still works well
Clothes are practical, if they aren’t comfy/waterproof etc it doesn’t matter if they look good
They hate waste
There’s no concept of “minding your own business” you can have an opinion on anything and state it bluntly.
They don’t like fast food or bad quality food

As I said, it won’t apply to all Germans but it’s a few things I’ve observed

I can't vouch for much on German-ness as my friendships (through an outdoor activities club ) were about 20 years ago (but I agree on being more direct and dry than English people), but my observation on living with someone with a different nationality is that our language varies even though we are both native speakers.

People learning English often pick up Americanisms either through their teachers and learning or films/ media. I still have to think carefully about context as to what form of "pants" DH is referring to. He usually means underwear, but may mean trousers and his family call trousers pants. Again, some pronounciations can be confusing and I have wondered whether DH is talking about debt or death before now as they sound the same. As to the identity crisis of the warm cupboard in the bathroom... at least the DCs call it an airing cupboard

And also
Nudity is your natural state of being, they will cover up but if the towel drops off while getting changed it’s not a cause for panic.
Bodily functions are not necessarily private and it’s ok to discuss them
Mild hypochondria

I have three German colleagues who I've known for ages and the most they have in common are the kind of childhood things that people from a similar era will have - it was acceptable to leave your baby at home asleep while you went to the shops, having specific presents for starting school, ways to celebrate holidays etc. They are all West German and of an age when they grew up before the Wall fell.
The female colleague's comments about one of the men are the same as we all make about self centred husbands and the husband's wife thinks his quirks are "German". They aren't.
I also used to have a very close East German friend of the same age and though some of the cultural things were the same (Christmas traditions etc) she had a very different life - her parents were anti-regime so she trained as a nurse instead of going to university.

not getting straight back into clothes after daytime sex?

See, I'm not even sure that I know what this means. I only really put clothes on if I need them, say if I am cold or leaving the house.

Growing up we lived in an atrium house, where the garden was small but fully enclosed (long wall being the (featureless, windowless) back of the next house along, so absolutely private.

Wake up, quick bathroom break, stretch up, wonder out through French doors to the garden. Go through to kitchen, make coffee. Drink water. In summer, sit on bench in garden sipping water.

No need for clothes. See?

[My now DH doesn't really see]

I lived in Germany in the 80s and 90s and was married to a German. It's difficult to describe how they are, they're all different, just like the British. What I would say is they tend to dress for the weather, not for fashion as much maybe, classic clothing. Also they are much more open about nudity and bodies, bodily functions, in general, as mentioned above. Yes to the mixer taps instead of individual taps. We had a tumble dryer, but yes, washing machine in the bathroom. Evening meals tend to be "Abendbrot", translates as evening bread, so bread with cold meats, cheese, salads. Breakfast at the weekend is often a big deal, fresh bread rolls fetched from the baker, also with cold meats, cheese, salads. If I had to sum them up they are more direct, less polite. They don't really queue! They like fresh air, opening windows to air the house.

Not sure if any of this is of help. Ask away if there's anything specific.

Thank you on the environmental stuff in particular -- this is relevant to my plot. Is that a mainstream opinion, @Hoppinggreen? Could you give an example of something that would count as flippant in that context? Like cheating on the recycling and putting your paper and glass into the general rubbish would be considered a far worse misdemeanour? What about someone saying 'Oh, I never bother, they say it all ends up in landfill, anyway'?

And it works for this character to state home truths very directly, and for my main character to be fascinated and a bit appalled by it.

What about general German attitudes towards what some other cultures consider normal, socially-permissible 'white lies'? 'No, your bottom doesn't look big in that.' 'Yes, I came -- you were wonderful!'

Faking an orgasm? What about lying in general? My main character (the woman in a new relationship with the German man) is someone who lies a lot, and she also shoplifts small items, and has covered up something big about her past. Will he be likely to take her at her word unless there's proof to the contrary, but be likely to confront her if there's proof she's lying?

Thanks again, everyone.

Oh yeah, German Folk-Punk is a thing. They're an enthusiastic audience for Irish Punk-Folk, too. A very enthusiastic audience - you go on stage at 10pm for a 10-12 slot and you're still trapped in the WWII bunker that's been converted into a venue at 2am because they really don't want you to stop playing.

We passed on the skinny dipping at 2am in the lake somewhere in the arse end of nowhere at another festival, though.

Oh yes to clothes are practical.

The things we have UK where you would ask are these winter boots waterproof, or not expect them to be waterproof unless explicitly stated is something I have never come across in DE.

If boots would not stand up to water it would be stated on a label.

See, I'm not even sure that I know what this means. I only really put clothes on if I need them, say if I am cold or leaving the house.

How would you view someone who was of the opposite persuasion, who wore clothes unless they were actually in the shower or having sex? Would you be amused/baffled/weirded out by someone you'd just slept with who put on some clothes to go to the loo or something?

I lived in Germany for a couple of years and the 'quirks' I noticed (compared to English)

• different attitude to alcohol. A small beer or wine at the park etc was completely acceptable... Not getting drunk, enjoying it for its taste.
• Sundays are for rest/family. Not for DIY/gardening etc

-returning your empty bottles to the shop to get your deposit back.

• cycling as a means of transport.

I think the commonest reactions to flippancy about environmental issues (even without the plot device of him being a Zoologist) and lying would be 'Why on earth would you do that?' and she'd be dumped and blocked on the spot. Permanently.

As I would do to any man that sounds quite so appalling.

Yes to mild hyperchondria. They are quite obsessed with bodies and health. Swimming pools with kneipp foot baths come to mind? And spas. Lots of outdoor swimming pools and they don't necessarily cover up when changing in changing rooms, topless sunbathing is acceptable.

They do drink a lot of beer, no binge drinking culture like here. Beer is drunk at any time, sparkling wine (Sekt) too, but not excessively, it's just the norm, including sparkling wine for breakfast at the weekend sometimes, special occasions. They take their beer seriously, no additives.

A lot of recycling, they've been recycling much longer than we have (Grüner Punkt). They buy drinks in crates in glass bottles and return the bottles for Pfand - money back. They have shops just selling drinks like this, beer and soft drinks, sparkling water.

Probably not helpful for this context, but in the days when our multinational company did elaborate induction weeks, the 'cultural differences' slot was always dreadful. Best brains in the business and no one could come up with a format for a couple of hours on cultural differences in a multinational context that didn't have someone up in arms and someone tearful.

Best illustration we got was a young man from the US who tried out the sauna. He was horrified to find a (naked, seemingly angry ) woman shouting at him.

He assumed he had by accident wandered into the women's changing rooms. He was, of course, not in the wrong place, the sauna was mixed.

In fact, she was robustly and for his own good telling him that wearing swimming shorts in a sauna was a very unhealthy habit and he should take them off and just sit on a towel.

I think they'd disapprove of someone not recycling correctly or at all.

They wouldn't understand someone getting dressed just to go to the loo.

And I don't think they'd go for the white lies, they're quite direct and truthful, none of this fake politeness.