UK or Irish with a German boyfriend/DH? Cultural insights needed, please!

[Luftschloss]

I'll be upfront and say this is for a novel, but if anyone had any insights into what it was/is like being a British or Irish woman in a relationship with a German man, I'd be really grateful -- cultural differences, differences in dating etiquette, relationship expectations, anything really?

I've spent time in Germany, but not recently, and have never dated a German. Have combed the internet and got a lot of Youtube videos on dating Germans, but they seem both incredibly stereotyped 'You need to be more forward than usual! They make lists! They don't do small talk! They've very blunt!' and to come at things from a very US perspective, so any further insights would be great.

(In case it matters, this German character is late 20s and a postdoc, an outdoor/climbing type of person, and lives in London when they meet. Tell me what brands of clothing he would be wearing?)

Would you be amused/baffled/weirded out by someone you'd just slept with who put on some clothes to go to the loo or something?

Well, in the end I married him so ....

But I did click that he was 'one of those' buttoned up men and wondered how affections land generous he would turn out to be. All good on both counts.

I think they'd disapprove of someone not recycling correctly

Indeed, until my parents got the hang of it, it was not unusual for people on days when the recycling was put out, to ring the door bell and point out the error of her ways to my mother, for putting the wrong things in the wrong boxes.

I have had to learn as an adult that people in UK take against being told things 'for their own good'.

Oh, has anyone else come across the 'red dye in swimming pools'? I honestly don't know whether this was just a myth ...

We were told, and always passed on the information to our visitors in DE, that the swimming pools had a chemical that caused the water to go red when in contact with urine.

DH is convinces that this is a myth and that everyone pisses in swimming pools

DH is not a keen swimmer.

OP, did you ever come across the forum Toytown Germany when you were living there? It has hundreds of threads running the gamut from passionate to bafflement on every single trait already mentioned here

I've heard of the red dye too, but never come across it, could be a myth..

My SBIL is German but I don't see them very much as they're much younger (by 20 years) and live in Germany.
He's very well dressed, pricey looking checked shirts, posh fleeces and expensive jeans.

Very polite but easily offended. That's just one person though.

Not to stereotype but my German friend and her German husband are similar.
Well dressed in expensive, well made, natural fibres, outdoor wear. Very outdoorsy, grow their own veg, uni educated.
Also they argue that all germans carry Swiss army knives as routine ?!?
Very much 'the good life' lifestyle with no crisps, chocolate and only homemade cake.

They used to have fixed times when you were allowed to mow the lawn, do noisy things, especially at the weekend. It was unheard of to mow the lawn during quiet times.

That was certainly an urban myth when I was a child. @FinallyHere. Though it didn't seem to stop anyone!

How would a white lie told to someone else be likely to be viewed? (Sarah tells her friend she likes her new boyfriend. Thorsten knows perfectly well that Sarah thinks the boyfriend is a wanker.)

Also sorry to lower the tone but faking orgasm? There's such a general acceptance here that everyone fakes sometimes and a set of jokes around that, that I wondered how that might function differently in a culture less addicted to polite white lies?

Coffee and cake on Sunday afternoons is a thing, visitors come for it and bring flowers.

Yes, they don't really eat junk, no ready meals, they cook from scratch.

Sorry, probably none of this is relevant, just trying to give you a feel for the Germans as I remember them.

I didn't, @SecondRow -- it was in the 1990s!

fixed times when you were allowed to mow the lawn, do noisy things,

Oh yes, still alive and well.

No one would phone a home (rather than an office) during the quiet hours, noon to 2pm or

but faking orgasm?

There's such a general acceptance here that everyone fakes sometimes

In my early 20s, maybe, but not since I met a decent bloke and found some self confidence.

I've lived in Bavaria for over 40 years,. I worked for 30 of those years and have a German son in law and many German friends.

Re bathrooms. Most German men sit down to do a wee. The thought of wee being sprayed around the toilet brings grimaces. No carpets in the bathroom. Certainly in Bavaria nearly all houses have huge cellars with several rooms, one of which is usually for washing machines and tumble dryers (nearly all my aquaintances have tumble dryers).
They always take their outside shoes off when entering a house - always!

Culturally they are often very direct. They say what they think and expect you to as well. Faffing around not saying what you really think really annoys them. I've heard them say 'you can't believe a word the Brits say because they never say what they really think'.

They are polite and friendly but they won't be best buddies after a couple of meetings. They would use the word 'aquaintance' (Bekannte) for most people but 'friend' ( Freund/in) for real friends. Being a real friend brings with it certain un spoken responsibilities to each other.
They often don't have puddings/desserts but prefer Kaffee und Kuchen (coffee or tea and cake mid afternoon)
They will often greet parents, relatives or good friends with a kiss on both cheeks.

These are just a few things I noticed here but obviously they would not apply across the board.

I'm a German woman that's dated German men although my current partner isn't German. I have a bit of insight in general about the German way way of life and how I would expect the described character to be.

Not sure if it will be relevant at all to your book but German men are encouraged to pee sitting down (especially in public/shared facilities) so that they don't get pee on the toilet seat and floor. Big benefit of living with a German man in my opinion.

I would expect the character you describe to be very environmentally concious - taking recycling a lot more seriously than the British, shopping for organic products, using waste free supermarkets etc. and using a bike or public transport rather than a car.

Clothes wise I would expect him to shop for practicality rather than fashion, choosing clothes because they are sensible and will last a long time rather than being bothered with staying up to date with the trends.

I would also expect him to be a big fan of beer, certainly not someone who would be happy to drink a carlsberg or a fosters and a big fan of traditional German cuisine (as long as its sustainably sourced)

Oh, how about 12hr am/pm v 24:00 hour clock?

Could she invite him to meet at Xpm and they miss each other because he read it as the 24hr clock. ?

[looking at friend who booked us on the 6.30am train, and then got us there for 18.30]

I remember having timing issues somewhere, but I can't remember whether it was both Denmark and Germany or just Denmark. Basically, in Ireland we say half four meaning 4.30 or half past four but some other countries would understand half four as being half-way to four or 3.30.

Oh yes, good point @BlackAmericanoNoSugar

12:30 is twelve thirty in UK but halb Eins (half one) in DE

Astonished nobody's mentioned Jack Wolfskin (or did I miss it?). The quintessential German outdoot brand (although I know a few brand snobs who aren't keen and prefer North Face et al).

Shaking hands, yes*. Or if you arrive at or leave a place where a lot of people are gathered you might knock on the table in lieu of shaking everyone's hand.

*I never fail to be amused and slightly disturbed at adults wishing my children a happy birthday, right down to the 4yo, solemnly shaking their hand and wishing them 'happiness and above all, health'. Talking of birthdays, saying happy birthday to someone before their actual birthday is an enormous no no. This was the first year, in over 14 years of being a parent in Germany, that I dared to hold one of my children's parties before the actual day, and only then because there was for various reasons really no other option.

Fruit tea. And herbal. And green and rooibos. Germans (unless they happen to be from the far north) don't do (black) tea well, at all, but there are whole shops dedicated to fruit teas and the like. Jakob/Florian/Moritz/Lukas/Nklas (some typical names of the vintage and social class you're aiming at) will probably be a dedicated fruit tea drinker.

Absolutely woe betide you if you get the recycling wrong.

No to the white lies, it’s lying end of. If it’s true it’s perfectly acceptable to say it
As for an example of flippancy around The Environment I was visiting friends of DH family in Munich and they were explaining the complex recycling system. I made a joke about getting it wrong and it went down like a lead balloon.

Sorry, that's Niklas.

And the white lies - we had a family member visit last year and I mentioned another family member had had a baby and called her x.
Visitor said they thought it was an awful name. It’s hard to explain but she wasn’t being nasty, she genuinely thought it was an awful name and to be fair most of the rest of us did too but we did the vague “oh, how nice” British thing. Other things people have said are “ don’t lose weight, because you are fat you have less wrinkles”
Again, sounds like something a mil from Hell might say but if you know the people involved you would know it’s a simple statement of fact.

One more thing from me (I am endlessly interested in such differences and would love to read the book OP)

Re the brusqueness thing, it's not unusual for native German speakers to sound brusque when speaking English. It's really helpful to be able to hear them express the same sentiments in German. In my experience the brusqueness just isn't there, in fact they are being very kind and lovely.

It's something about the sentence structure and how words are added to soften German which are maybe not used or not known by the speaker in English

Oh, an exception being 'excuse me' I found it quite rare for a German person to apologise for something they obviously didn't mean to do, such as bumping a trolley

I had a group of EFL students who struggled more with the concept of starting a sentence with Excuse me 'when I haven't even done anything yet'. 😀

Where in Germany is he from?

There are very big differences in cultural norms depending on if you are from Bavaria, western Germany, the former east, or Berlin, etc.

If your character is a youngish person from Berlin, he will likely already have had friends and colleagues from around Europe, the world, he will not be so bemused/amused by what an English person does. It is different if he is from a small village in Bavaria or Saxony. Some of the things on this thread are not really relevant for Berliners (I live in Berlin, used to live in London.)

I'd agree that the main difference will be the more direct German way of speaking, however this is still a generalisation. It's not like every German person goes around being super direct and blunt 100% of the time. And do you think no one in Germany shoplifts or lies? His reaction will have more to do with his personal background than the fact he is German.

I imagine sexual norms also vary by area, some parts of Germany are very conservative whereas Berlin is more anarchic.

Also, if he is from Berlin and living in London then he will probably buy all his outdoor stuff at Decathlon.

@Dreaming, I had put that he was from Hamburg, but that was just as a placeholder. And he's lived in several other countries, so is thoroughly cosmopolitan. And I absolutely get that Germans also shoplift and lie (and fake orgasms!)

My main character is actually Irish, if that makes a difference, though they meet in London.

What would the average educated German be likely to associate with Ireland, if he hasn't been there and has no personal experience of it? Are there specific associations Ireland has in Germany?