Good God Extinction Rebellion blocking a funeral hearse.

[HelenaDove]

I know where they are coming from but for the love of God you dont block and/or lie under a funeral hearse. FGS think of the relatives and friends of the deceased and how they are feeling.

Unfuckingreal!

PS said neighbour will def be doing yoga, in minimal clothing. Her fave joke is "well that's enough about me - now what do YOU think of me?" 😂

If they wore rags you'd just dismiss them as crusties anyway

I’ve always had more respect for crustiest, because at least they walk the talk. This lot will find another bandwagon to jump on, when they get bored with this one.

From that article Soola?! They put their logo on top of the chalk with soft fabric and then removed "by daybreak". Doesn't sound at all vile...

Have there been reports on the extent of the damage to the white horse?

I believe on one of the zebra ocassions the plastic was just left there, I don't think it was lovingly picked up after being placed with care.

I just don't think there has been quite the extent of OMGness over various pranks and protests that have involved the white horses of Wiltshire (someone once added a - albeit temporary - cock to Westbury white horse!) They are often left in a state of needing recalling or cutting for ages, The Marlborough horse practically disappeared.

"Minor delays getting to work for a few days will seem just a little trivial by comparison"

Not to people on zero hour contracts it wont.

People who are saying the government isn’t going anything? What do you think it is the government aren’t doing? The UK government has recognised the impact of climate change for years, and has implemented a shit tonne of policies to reduce our impact on the environment; and force industry to develop in a far more sustainable way.

This isn’t America, where Trump doesn’t believe in Climate change. We’d had laws in place for years recognising the challenge that climate Change presents.

Yes, they should and can do better (fracking, funding of sustainable energy etc); and they should absolutely be pressured to be held to account - but is that really going to be accomplished by a bunch of people doing yoga on Westminster Bridge? By a bunch of (paid) actors dressing in red?

Climate change is a genuine concern and drastic action is needed - but it needs to be balanced with what is actually realistic to achieve in realistic timescales.

"Deeds not words" was a challenge to the NUWSS (National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies) who had spend forty years peacefully trying to change government policy through articles and letters and meetings.

It didn't work.

So Emmeline Pankhurst founded the WSPU with the aim of taking direct action. Which, yes, meant defacing monuments, slashing paintings in the national gallery, stopping traffic, chaining themselves to things and throwing paint (and stones) at people.

It got a lot of attention focused on women's suffrage, in the same way that Greta and XR's tactics have got a lot of attention focused on climate change - attention which was well overdue and urgently needed.

Pankhurst's "deeds not words" didn't mean "buy a bike and recycle". It meant "do exactly the sort of shit XR are doing". She'd have bloody loved them. Only she'd have been throwing stones at Boris Johnson, burning down houses and blowing up post boxes as well.

I've heard this for 25 years. That London would be underwater in your grandchildren's lifetime? Yes, me too. A quick Google suggests that will be in about 80 years time. I don't think anyone credible was suggesting "your grandchildren's lifetime" was 2019.

@Dyrne well said

What do you think it is the government aren’t doing?

Surely nobody could say with a straight face that the British government have been gainfully employed these past three years

"I don't think anyone credible was suggesting "your grandchildren's lifetime" was 2019."

I said, I was told we'd be underwater in 5 years, more than 25 years ago. This was by someone who is still "credible" according to the media and his speaker fee/writing fee.

I will happily put my hand up and say, I didn't know the WSPU attacked innocent paintings. Disappointed.

For a start, the government hasn't been giving urban local authorities the funding it needs to deal with air quality. There used to be a dedicated funding stream. That stopped with 'austerity', along with cuts to budgets to sea defences, anti-pollution measures, sustainable transport, and recycling initiatives.

Local authorities have to pick up the slack of massive cuts which is why everything else also from SEN budgets to adult social care is now so tightly rationed.

Council tax in my area accounts for just 13% of local authority spending. The rest comes from government streams and grants. Cuts to the government money coming in have had a catastrophic effect on environmental planning.

LisaRoundTheMulberryBush I’m assuming by that statement that you must have missed the government publishing their 25 year Environment plan, setting out their commitment to a sustainable future and a realistic path forward for achieving genuine cuts in emissions, plastic pollution, and an increase in health of our rivers and seas?

This isn’t just meaningless government sound bites, there is a real plan for how to get there.

I mean, I fucking hate this government and think they have a lot to be criticised for, but stomping around shouting that they have done “NOTHING” for the environment is completely missing the point and screaming for “SOMETHING” while demanding completely unachievable targets is going to get us absolutely nowhere.

By all means, let’s open a debate. Let’s demand better from our leaders; god knows they need to sort their fucking act out! But let’s maybe challenge them on say, cutting 50% of emissions in the next 10 years, and look at how we could achieve that?

CheerfulMuddler I think a lot of the protesters like to think they are joining the likes of Emmeline Pankhurst, Martin Luther King etc - that they too are fearless protesters willing to be arrested for standing up for what they believe in.

But I ask again - for what? What big change are they hoping to accomplish? This isn’t a human right that is being withheld - our government is already working to ensure a better future for our children and grandchildren; they don’t need to be shocked into action. Yes, they need to be prodded to go a bit faster, but I just think people here are fighting against an enemy which just doesn’t exist in the UK.

But I ask again - for what? What big change are they hoping to accomplish?

It is completely possible to achieve zero emissions in six years time. It is not likely. It is not easy. But it is possible.

Since we're talking about Pankhursts, let's compare our current government to Asquith's in 1914. They also faced a crisis - a war with Germany. So what did they do? They passed a law in 1916 making it illegal for any able-bodied unmarried man aged 18-30 to do anything except devote his entire existence to solving the problem. They mobilised, armed, fed and equipped an army of literally millions, who spend four years fighting.

1.8 million British men died. Huge numbers more lost their physical and mental health. The entire social structure of British life was changed forever. Thousands of women left their homes and jobs and took on the work that those men had left. The daily lives of everyone in the country was completely changed for four years. We had rationing. Food shortages. Unheated houses. And we achieved our aim.

The current crisis is far more serious than the risk of losing a war. I agree with pp that the rhetoric of XR is overdramatic. I don't think we're facing inevitable extinction or societal breakdown. But I think it's possible. Mainstream science says that millions of people will die, whole countries will become uninhabitable (though probably not Britain), and war, famine and natural disasters will become more common. Those things are beginning to happen now.

If we treated this big emergency with the same seriousness as we treated the much smaller emergency of WW1, we could be carbon neutral in 2025. Do I think we're plausibly going to? No. I don't think XR do either. But I think by demanding it, they're going to get something much closer to the level of response that we need.

This isn’t a human right that is being withheld

Declaration of Human Rights says that "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services." Our government is failing to even meet the requirements of the Paris Climate Change Agreement, which most climate scientists agree is completely inadequate. That's directly trampling in the human rights of entire nations.

""Minor delays getting to work for a few days will seem just a little trivial by comparison"

Not to people on zero hour contracts it wont."

Like I said, people seem to be in total denial about the reality of what we are facing. Are you really claiming that a few days of delay to work, zero hours or no, is consequential compared to the prospect of the demise of modern civilization within four or five decades? People need to wake up and realise that we are going to have to take a major hit to our current lives of consumption, comfort and convenience if we have a hope of our grandkids inheriting a liveable world.

"our government is already working to ensure a better future for our children and grandchildren; they don’t need to be shocked into action."

Are you serious? Have you seen what our shitshow of a government have been up to recently?!! Fucking hell, with deluded complacency like that around, I'm beginning to think xr aren't radical enough.

CheerfulMuddler I... wow. I’m not really sure what to say to that. You say you don’t agree with XR rhetoric, but then invoke World War I?

We lived in a vastly different world back in 1914.

For a start; trying to achieve everything by 2025 would require a massive change in multiple laws, bypassing numerous processes and consultations designed to ensure a fair and democratic process. This would set a horrific precedent for government to bypass this process for any other law they deem “important”.

It would require intense investment - the money required for this will have to come from somewhere. Can you force companies to pay up? Definitely not - the legal challenge alone would last decades in the courts; or else they’d sell up and move out of the country before you can say “but it’s good for the environment!”

That leaves the government to pick up the bill. This probably means increased taxes. Ah, but it’s good for the environment, you shrug, and only for the next 5 years. Like fuck would they lower them once all the work is done; and you’ve possibly just lost your job anyway with the loss of business and industry.

So the government would need to pour literally all their funding into achieving this. At the expense of what? Benefits? Local government? The NHS? This government has already proven they will use any excuse to cut these services to the bone; you bet your arse they’ll do it here under the guise of “the Environment”. People are already dying because they can’t get the benefits, support, or treatment you need. How many more would die because we’re taking away even more? Do you want to look their families in the eye and tell them it’ll all be worth it in 5 years? When we would have maybe done it with less impact in 15-20 years?

Above all - what part of the current protest is discussing these tricky points? At what point are they going to stop screaming and invite reasoned debate? I get that you have to scream when the government isn’t listening; but there are routes of making your voice heard on environmental matters - how many people protesting today have even heard of the government’s 25 year plan? Of OFWAT’s PR19 challenge to Water companies? How many people are regularly responding to the consultations on the Environment Agency's website? Or their Local Council’s? How many people there today have written to their MP? Have gone to one of their surgeries?

The truth is, long term sustainable climate activism is boring - it’s a long slog to go through the research and try to come up with something that will work; and work with the government to implement it and hold them to account... but it’s not as shiny as being able to instagram a photo of yourself doing yoga on a bridge.

frogsoup So I will ask - what do you propose the government do that they aren’t already? How would you propose we speed up the aim of net zero emissions by 2050?

More importantly, what do you think Extinction Rebellion are proposing? Do you think this current display of anarchism is at all helpful in delivering on those aims?

The hearse was a prop, as for Extinction rebelion, its become a cult, its ignored how 'white middle class' it is, with the shadow funding where ardent devotes are paid ~£370 a week (who is funding this), we should somehow ignore why they are not protesting the main contributors to climate change and instead decide to demonstrate against western nations and block the traffic and cause round the block queues for fucking pret.

Its middle class trust fund activism with a shade of funding, they dont give a shit as they eat the avocado toast and almond milk latte.

Its slactavism 101 at this point, its those supporting 'ER' who are the uneducated wrt to globalisation and politics in general, trying to play it under the cloak of saving the environment shows how generally dense they are.

Now compare that to Extinction Rebellion’s “Raaah do SOMETHING!!!”
But which one had you heard of? Which one prompted you to do more research into the whole thing?
We need XR. It's not business as usual. People need to stop burying their heads in the sand, frothing about fake news and quoting crap from the Daily Fail/Telegraph (which just rewrites DM articles these days).

those supporting 'ER' who are the uneducated wrt to globalisation and politics in general, trying to play it under the cloak of saving the environment shows how generally dense they are.
LMFAO I'll just go and shred both my MSc degrees then...

Check your facts, why don't you, OP?

I think it is helpful in moving the issue up the agenda. I agree that specifics are required (and no I don't know what they are, but are you seriously suggesting that the government have already done everything humanly possible to reduce emissions?!). But so is government awareness that people are waking up to the problem. I must admit I'm laughing at the idea of people like my dad being described as anarchists. He's a v staid, rule-abiding ex-engineer, prepared to be arrested for the first time ever aged 78. Non-violent direct action has got us many things we now take for granted, not least the vote. I'll bet Emily Davison would have been slated on here back in MN Edwardian version.

I can guarantee he's never eaten an almond milk latte either. He left school at 15, got a degree in night school, and is in no sense middle class. Where do people get off on spouting this shit about who they think these demonstrators supposedly are? From what I can tell they are a pretty wide-ranging bunch. As for being paid, yes of course, they're all funded by the Iranians, didn't you know? Or possibly the Russians.