Sainsburys going bag free

[Graphista]

Just received email from Sainsburys saying they're going bagless with deliveries.

I GET that this is supposed to be a "good thing" for the environment (though quite honestly I notice they're doing fuck all about individual packaging which I suspect would make a bigger difference!) BUT for me this HUGELY problematic.

I have OCD and so for me my groceries being in bags just feels a lot more hygienic. Than scrabbling about loose in crates that from what I can see are rarely cleaned!

In addition I live in the west of Scotland - it rains here pretty much most of the time! Already when it's wet weather the grocery bags are sometimes soaked but at least the individual products are dry!

I'm also physically disabled which means I already have to take 2-3 hours to "prep" to receive delivery of groceries (stretching exercises, bath, time for painkillers to kick in).

And there's more...

My flat is TINY the kitchen particularly so! It's a HALF galley so only one person can fit in there at a time (and even that's at a push! Dd and I have had to learn how to move in this kitchen so we don't constantly bump ourselves on cupboard edges etc).

With my disability I can just about manage carrying 2 carrier bags into kitchen at a time and placing on the floor when delivery comes. Drivers already get impatient with me!

I have sod all counter space (0.75m X 0.75m) to place items on, a few are normally placed on the cooker too but because of the hob shape only certain items fit. The ocd means I cannot put stuff on the floor absolutely NO WAY I could do that!

Fridge stuff takes careful management as small fridge and to fit everything in on fridge day is like setting up a Jenga game without a box!

IF I were to insist driver simply had to wait while I put everything away properly, well that normally takes me 60/90 mins!!

I have NOWHERE I can store crates (even collapsed) or bags for life

What the hell am I supposed to do?!

This is causing me GREAT anxiety so PLEASE be mindful of that in replies I would appreciate that.

OP for someone who can't move fast you sure can type fast! How on earth did you write all those long replies on Tuesday between 18:33 and 18:39? Sorry but I'm genuinely curious!

Thought Graphista should know about this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3701354-Sainsburys-stopping-plastic-bag-delivery

"I thought - apologies if not - that much earlier in the thread she said she’d be happy with this as a solution and would store outside the flat on the landing"

Housing associations are removing things from hallways. NOTHING is allowed to be stored in communal hallways now.

ProhibitedRodent I had an in depth conversation with EAS and was completely honest with them as I'm being here. Your choice whether to personally believe me or not but nobody is forcing you to either read or post on the thread and I find it VERY hurtful and offensive that you KEEP accusing me of LYING

I AM NOT LYING!!

@ProhibitedRodent also "reasonable adjustment" has to be one that works for the person with the disability

A company providing documents in Braille as a response to a request for a ramp isn't actually making a "reasonable adjustment"

@Very
LOL 😂 YEAS! 🙌🏼

Very I wonder what you're trying to say/imply. You do realise a huge number of people with reduced mobility/disabilities can actually use their fingers to type, some even quickly....

OP, I have OCD and completely understand your anxiety over this issue. I totally get why you don't like things that have touched the floor or other "contaminated" places to then be places on your worktops, etc. For me, no matter how clean someone's floor is, the fact that people walk over it instantly makes it germ ridden in my book, and once bags have sat on the floor they feel "unclean" on the outside.

My DH used to stuff bags inside each other after putting shopping away, until I explained that to my OCD mind, some bags have then contaminated the bags they were inside, as germs from the floor are now inside the outer bags. We now have a large old canvas bag that all the others are kept in, and I place them lengthwise, with all the bottom sections at one end, so the handles don't get "contaminated". I know all this is OTT, I know that bacteria are everywhere and most do no harm, but I can't help it. OCD is a tiring and demanding taskmaster.

I'm also annoyed at shops who are going bagless, for all the reasons you have, plus many others. They are not doing it to save the planet, they are using that as an excuse to cut their costs, and in turn it's going to make many people's lives more difficult, including their own drivers. Plastic bags are not evil, it's disposing of plastic irresponsibly that causes problems to wildlife. In any case, strong paper bags could be used, which perform better in a way, of they have a nice sturdy bottom section, as they hold their shape well when being packed. Also, they are great for composting. I hope customers will make their voices heard on this issue.

Good luck OP, I feel your angst.

They are not doing it to save the planet, they are using that as an excuse to cut their costs, and in turn it's going to make many people's lives more difficult, including their own drivers.

But how is going bagless going to cut their costs? The cost of the bags isn't that great.

As a poster above mentioned the drivers will take longer and they have to invest in crates his is that going to help cutting coats?

It’s going to cut costs because the picking time will be reduced.

Zellenor2 I'm so sorry that happened to you, £5 is an insult! And I don't blame you at all for not using that service again but is the "shop" still an Asda one or have you been able to give your custom to a completely different company?

@webuilt - I AM trying to find a solution to this issue I can't help that I have many obstacles to that, I HAVE been trying for MONTHS (as has my GP) to get me the support I need from the appropriate agencies to no avail so far. It's a major problem where I am and there are often angry/frustrated/distressed comments from other residents on the local sm pages and in our local paper how badly we've been affected by the cuts. We barely have a MH service to speak of at this stage! I've had whole days spent on the phone TRYING to get support. I DO appreciate you're trying to be supportive but yes being told to "just be positive" IS irksome and feels quite dismissive. I WISH it were that simple!

@ToffeeandMarchpane I'm glad that Asda are working for you, I had horrendous problems when I tried using them, items missing, tons of subs (that made no sense!) and double even triple charging (and having to wait weeks for those mistakes to be rectified). I am not just thinking of the rigid ones but all kinds. The plastic ones are hard to keep upright and the thicker more rigid ones are hard to fold in a way that would work for me/take up more space.

"The rest of your post is a bit insane.No hygienic? 😂" perfect example of EITHER the NEED to read the FULL thread or even just the op!! Have you never heard of OCD? OR callous dismissiveness of serious mental illness!

DuvetCaterpillar - I already use my bed to a degree because of the small kitchen issue but feel really uncomfortable about putting items on the bed straight from the crate, my bed is my "safe space" that I try to keep as clean as possible. I DO get why they're doing it and I DO support using less plastic BUT I really don't see why bags made from environmentally friendly materials can't be used instead of nothing at all!

"the Sainsburys FB posts keep disappearing. It’s being monitored for negativity." I'm noticing the same on Twitter, STILL having trouble accessing the right part of the Facebook page but I think that's Facebook/my tech that's the issue.

"I thought - apologies if not - that much earlier in the thread she said she’d be happy with this as a solution and would store outside the flat on the landing."
If it were their crates yes not if they were mine

"I wouldn’t leave a crate on landing outside door, it could be a trip hazard or impede others." This COULD be an issue and I'm not sure how HA landlords would be about it.

IncrediblySadToo thank you for your understanding and support - I would NEVER wish it on anyone permanently but sometimes I am tempted to wish certain folk could have it just for a day so they could understand better.

A shed?! 😂😂😂😂

"Yo can only do that if the others deliver to your area & Graphista has said they don’t."
Yea I'm pretty cornered! There's only Tesco and a SMALL morrisons in "town" and only Tesco, Asda and Sainsburys deliver here. It's west of Scotland and we ARE on the mainland but some retailers THINK we're on an island as we share first 2 letters of postcode with island addresses. So we also have the "fun" when ordering from eg John Lewis they say they don't deliver here because they don't deliver to "highlands and islands" 🙄 we're neither!!

Re "they've offered to take crates in kitchen" bit of confusions over this I think. They have stated that their policy is that drivers CAN put crates in the kitchen IF requested AND IF safe to do so and driver willing to do so. I then explained the layout and size of the kitchen and there was a lot of uhming and aahing but no actual answer to the issue there. I completely understand that the drivers safety has to be considered too and I really think it wouldn't necessarily be safe for THEM to do so.

ACertainSupermarket - thank you for posting with the experience from a drivers perspective. The vast majority of the drivers I've had with Sainsburys have been lovely and very helpful (another concern with the Tesco and Asda drivers was they sometimes were a bit haphazard how they handled the shopping, there were a lot of damages with the Asda deliveries).

It may make the picking process quicker but then pickers are likely to be in fairly good physical health are they not? And so able to move faster, certainly than disabled or elderly customers. So I think the time saving the stores end is likely to be outweighed by additional time the customers/delivery end.

There's just so much that seems not to have been considered NOT just the OCD aspect:

1 keeping goods dry

2 keeping goods in one piece (if fragile stuff like eggs are packed in bags tying the bags can make them more stable

3 time - takes longer to empty a crate a few items at a time (I'm a short arse and have tiny hands!) than to empty at least 2 carrier bags worth at a time AND to pop bags wherever rather than stack goods on a counter or table so they don't fall.

4 customers physical fitness - bending and stretching to pick up goods can be very difficult for many and again moving items a few at a time means more bends required than there are with carrier bags

Even drivers handing me goods - as I said I haven't had the same driver twice! There's no way they can know how much I can hold/carry on one go not knowing me! One of the issues I have with my physical condition is I can struggle to maintain grip with my hands. So at the moment I tend to loop the bags onto my wrists to carry them.

"OP for someone who can't move fast you sure can type fast! How on earth did you write all those long replies on Tuesday between 18:33 and 18:39? Sorry but I'm genuinely curious!"

For starters I don't type with my spine! I have MANY years experience as an administrator and have been typing since I was 13 when I got my first computer (which I realise makes me sound bloody ancient but I'm 47 and that's when home computers first really became available), the jobs I had before I was no longer able to work required me to type fast and accurately. I'm actually MUCH slower than I used to be which really annoys me! I used to have a typing speed of around 90wpm I'm now down to (I think) around 55-60wpm

For another I'm not actually typing as fast as you might think from posting times.

Because my concentration and eyesight aren't great I don't write directly on the mn app. I write on a word processing app so I can enlarge the font and correct mistakes before posting (don't always manage the latter!) then I copy and paste onto mn app. And because the app limits how long posts can be I have to copy and paste in "chunks"

I do find it most frustrating as someone who used to be an expert typist, but even more frustrating is watching dd (supposedly of a tech friendly generation) typing with one finger! 😂

"For me, no matter how clean someone's floor is, the fact that people walk over it instantly makes it germ ridden in my book, and once bags have sat on the floor they feel "unclean" on the outside." Thank you! This is EXACTLY it!

"Good luck OP, I feel your angst."

Thanks again. It sounds like you and I also have very similar OCD issues, I find other OCD sufferers who don't have "our" OCD also don't understand the issues exactly BUT they do understand why it distresses us and the way we HAVE to do things a certain way.

See, this is where OCD overrides logic and I empathise completely with how ridiculous the rules it makes sometimes can be. But try and look at it logically and you might find a tiny bit of it helps you to power through having the shopping delivered.

You're focusing on the bags. But those groceries already have the floor germs on even if the bags don't. They've been in trolleys with other items. On shelves. Moved around factories. Touched by people who pick their nose, scratch their arses, cough and sneeze all over them. The vans drip condensation on them. The crates themselves aren't clean. They've been left out in the rain, left in other customers houses, maybe a cat sat in them (or worse).

Mythbusters once did a test where they found shit particles are literally everywhere. Your groceries are contaminating your bags rather than the other way round.

OP- I’ve now moved to Tesco
To be honest I would prefer to shop at Asda as I prefer their nappies for DS

Op have a look at watchdog last weeks episode at the beginning

From Twitter.

Mandy Morris
@mandydawn5
I understand why you're going bagless on internet orders
@sainsburys
but what are you doing for customers who live with life threatening allergies & cannot risk cross contamination? Can I have a refund of my delivery saver charge please as I will have to return to store shopping.
7:44 PM · Sep 26, 2019·Twitter Web App
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Sainsbury's
@sainsburys
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Replying to
@mandydawn5
Hi Mandy. I can confirm that our delivery totes will be steam cleaned weekly. I can cancel your delivery pass if you DM me via the link with the full name, billing address and email on your account. Brandon

Steam cleaned weekly... not just fed through a steam cleaner before or after use - so cross contamination with other people's groceries is likely. The amount of spills/split packets is much higher with bagless deliveries. At least in the past if it was in bags only the outside of the bags was affected... gross.

Op have a look at watchdog last weeks episode at the beginning

How on Earth is that going to be helpful??

But surely spills and split packages will be cleaned if necessary, whey won’t wait for the weekly steam clean?

Also, cross contamination? It’s not radioactive waste we are talking about here. Your groceries can touch other people’s groceries at any time, for you sample on the conveyor belt at the tills, on the shelves, while stacking and so on. They are not sterile.

It clearly is very inconvenient for the OP and I do hope an acceptable solution can be found but on the who it is as if posters are willing the scheme to fail. It’s very strange, we need to reduce plastic use and while this is in no way a complete solution it is a step n the right way.

OP, I don't have any experience of OCD, so take what I say with a pinch of salt. As much as I am sure your mental health issues are very restrictive, it sounds as though you could really help yourself by changing your attitude a bit.

You've mentioned, for example, that you can't have someone come in and help unpack because your DD doesn't like new people, and that if she goes to buy crates that will "add to her day and make her tired" (or words to that effect). You can't have two deliveries a week rather than one because that'll be "two difficult and tiring days". The reality is - that's life. Disabled or not, as adults we often need to do things that make us irritated, uncomfortable or tired. I work FT and have 3 kids. Most of my days involve an element of irritation and tiredness. But I still get out of bed in the morning.

Your OCD is shitty for you, and I sincerely hope that things improve for you because it sounds intolerable. But this shopping situation is an issue that has to be resolved, and clearly any and every solution (because there are numerous solutions) will necessitate you coming out of your comfort zone in some way. It's unavoidable. I really think you need to perhaps think in terms of the "least bad option" because you need to do something. Sainsburys are not going to change their policy (and not should they, IMHO).

I wish you the best.

"OP, I don't have any experience of OCD"

Or indeed ANY mental illness from this comment

"it sounds as though you could really help yourself by changing your attitude a bit."

I actually have to challenge myself EVERY DAY and SEVERAL TIMES a day just to do things that keep me alive!

It is NOT an act of will as I have said repeatedly and other sufferers of mental illness have also pointed out.

It is not CAUSED by an "attitude".

The ACTUAL EXPERTS believe there are several potential causes -

1 Genetics - it seems to have a hereditary aspect, not just at a DNA level but also (put simply) brain formation. Certain experts in the field have observed that people with OCD certain parts of the brain aren't formed in quite the same way as those without. This means that their brains process certain information differently - but hey I'm sure an "attitude change" will change the shape of my my brain 🤔

2 Emotional trauma - as is often the case with mental illness, this can be a trigger for conditions the patient is predisposed to

3 Physical trauma - fairly recent studies indicate that certain types of head injury may trigger the condition. I've only learned of this myself recently but my first bad flare up actually ties in time wise with the first car accident I was in as a child where I unfortunately cracked my head off the door frame (we were hit side on) I had to have stitches and there is still a noticeable dent in my skull!

4 auto-immune response - Google PANDAS - not something relevant to me but certainly for some sufferers it's a factor.

But yea an attitude change will cure me 🤔