Sainsburys going bag free

[Graphista]

Just received email from Sainsburys saying they're going bagless with deliveries.

I GET that this is supposed to be a "good thing" for the environment (though quite honestly I notice they're doing fuck all about individual packaging which I suspect would make a bigger difference!) BUT for me this HUGELY problematic.

I have OCD and so for me my groceries being in bags just feels a lot more hygienic. Than scrabbling about loose in crates that from what I can see are rarely cleaned!

In addition I live in the west of Scotland - it rains here pretty much most of the time! Already when it's wet weather the grocery bags are sometimes soaked but at least the individual products are dry!

I'm also physically disabled which means I already have to take 2-3 hours to "prep" to receive delivery of groceries (stretching exercises, bath, time for painkillers to kick in).

And there's more...

My flat is TINY the kitchen particularly so! It's a HALF galley so only one person can fit in there at a time (and even that's at a push! Dd and I have had to learn how to move in this kitchen so we don't constantly bump ourselves on cupboard edges etc).

With my disability I can just about manage carrying 2 carrier bags into kitchen at a time and placing on the floor when delivery comes. Drivers already get impatient with me!

I have sod all counter space (0.75m X 0.75m) to place items on, a few are normally placed on the cooker too but because of the hob shape only certain items fit. The ocd means I cannot put stuff on the floor absolutely NO WAY I could do that!

Fridge stuff takes careful management as small fridge and to fit everything in on fridge day is like setting up a Jenga game without a box!

IF I were to insist driver simply had to wait while I put everything away properly, well that normally takes me 60/90 mins!!

I have NOWHERE I can store crates (even collapsed) or bags for life

What the hell am I supposed to do?!

This is causing me GREAT anxiety so PLEASE be mindful of that in replies I would appreciate that.

The main reason a driver can't come in the kitchen and help unpack as I've stated REPEATEDLY is that THERE IS NO ROOM! There's literally enough space to go in the kitchen with the floor clear for ONE person to put away shopping or cook or do dishes or whatever. As soon as even one crate was in there that's about half the floor space gone! And I'm getting sick of repeating how tiny my ONE counter is!

You are being offensively dismissive and minimising.

Dd is ALSO disabled, she is in pain all day every day and it is exhausting for her. But she works and lives her life and tries not to let it get her down (she isn't always successful). She works 12 hour shifts so YES having to go shopping after work which would involve a 20 min bus ride at peak travel time and then walking into town "proper" finding and paying for the right items and then getting them home IS pretty demanding for her!

"You can't have two deliveries a week rather than one because that'll be "two difficult and tiring days""

Actually anyone who has read and PROPERLY comprehended what I've written understood that it would actually be 2 VERY difficult and EXHAUSTING days which would leave me buggered for at least 2 days following each delivery day too. I currently arrange for my delivery on a day that I know the next 2 days I can rest up.

"Disabled or not"
And theron lies the ignorance! Because disabled "tired" is NOT the same as normal "tired"

I worked from the age of 14, mainly nmw jobs, I've been a nurse, a carer for relatives and a single mother I KNOW the tiredness that comes with "normal" life stresses - I'd give anything to be well and working and ONLY as tired as I was then!

"I wish you the best." aye right!!

I didn't say - and don't think - that a positive attitude will cure you. But I do think there's an opportunity to change your outlook on some of this. I wasn't trying to offend you, only to suggest that you could be more open to people's suggestions. I'm sorry I upset you, it wasn't my intention. And unfortunately I have lots of experience with poor mental health.

People are trying to help you OP. And you are treating us all with fury and venom. It's not our fault Sainsbury has changed their bag policy. Please try and work through the suggestions and choose the one most helpful to you. They are not going to continue delivering in bags. You need to choose an alternative even though it may not be ideal for you.

If people are concerned about 'dirty' crates they should see the warehouses the food is stored in!

@Apolloanddaphne - yeas yeas yeas!!!

Although I try and stay away from this post it keeps drawing me back.
OP what do you want the outcome to be? If only you put in the same effort from your post & replies on mumsnet you may have an suitable outcome in real life. Just saying...

OP I’ve read the entire thread and have sympathy.

Can I ask, what would be your ideal solution? If you can identify it, the supermarket might be able to achieve it.

Hi. I'm not going to say what supermarket I work for, but the crates are certainly not steam cleaned weekly! And of course, as some people have pointed out, the packets are never going to be sterile, they have been touched by many people from factory onwards, delivery, stacked on shelves, customers, pickers...all with varying levels of hygiene!

I have no experience of OCD at all, but isn't it terribly frustrating for you? With your other conditions, it seems as though you have no life enjoyment and that's so sad. Is there no treatment for it?

You didn't respond to my suggestion, by the way, of phoning the store manager to get some left over packing bags (clean, un-used) sent out to you with a delivery so you and the driver could transfer them into bags at the doorstep and then you could bring them in the way you used to.

Graphista has tried to explain several times how small her kitchen is,. Having just come from a thread where people are cheering on the segregation of social housing tenants children from a playground including disabled kids and ex Grenfell residents nothing surprises me here any more.

Graph has also tried to explain how the lack of notice is also a factor

I GURANTEE that if she had posted a thread saying her HA had demanded she not store bags for life in the flat some posters here would have agreed with the HA.

I GURANTEE that if she had posted a thread saying her HA had demanded she not store bags for life in the flat some posters here would have agreed with the HA.

Why would the HA demand she or anyone else didn't store bags for life in her flat?

Stop using your disability as an excuse

She isn't. She is giving reasons why certain things are difficult. Do you not understand the difference between excuses and reasons?

What do you do with the plastic bags your shopping usually comes in?

Can't you just reuse them?

I AM open to suggestions and have said I will look into trying some of them BUT I also know myself, my condition and the layout of my home VERY well and so some simply won't work.

I KNOW where I can "push through" and where if I tried to it would make me extremely distressed and, in this case, unable to use the goods bought. I can ill afford to waste money! Having OCD is already very expensive for me.

"OP what do you want the outcome to be?" Ideally bags in environmentally friendly materials. These ARE available but for some reason here in the uk retailers seem very averse to using them and I don't understand why. At the very least I think Sainsburys should be making it possible to buy reusable bags online which is not an option they are offering at all.

I totally understand the need to reduce plastic use and have even commented to Sainsburys before about unnecessary plastic packaging, particularly on greengroceries as its not only not environmentally friendly but I have found over the years that fruit and veg lasts longer in paper bags rather than plastic packaging.

"If only you put in the same effort from your post & replies on mumsnet you may have an suitable outcome in real life" what on earth makes you think I'm not making an effort in real life?!

I have this week alone, in addition to dealing with this matter and trying to organise with dd buying crates/bags in time for the delivery:

Organised 2 repeat prescriptions for me (they can't be ordered together as one is a controlled drug and I have to have a telephone Drs appointment for each repeat, but il not allowed to mention the NON controlled one as that's not what the appointment is for)

Been dealing with pursuing the lack of support from the mental health team which its looking like I'll have to make a formal complaint which I REALLY don't want to do but as its been almost 6 months with very little progress I'm being left with little choice. That means I've been dealing with the service that is advocating for me and advising me, the mental health team, the dept that deals with complaints for the mental health team and my GP who is very kindly supporting me in trying to sort this out.

I've also been finalising completing my pip claim form, which is NOT a simple task, that has involved dealing with a welfare advisor (who's basically let me down last minute), her boss and dwp. I've had various tech issues in trying to deal with this and certain people have not been returning calls/emails as promised.

Dd has been having a tough week for a variety of reasons and I've been helping HER sort things out. She has an issue with a recurrent infection which the Drs seem to be having trouble getting on top of, which is recurring because of HER disability. So I've been doing my own research to provide the gp with information (as they are not specialists in her condition), making appointments for her (she couldn't as its murder getting through to make an appointment and she is at work when the GP surgery is open and is not allowed to have her phone on her) and also arranging a repeat prescription of hers.

I've also been dealing with a separate issue with the dwp and been calling them but so far haven't apparently got through to the right person. They've made a mistake on my ESA, it looks like they've confused me with someone else but I can't get any sense out of them.

So to say I'm not making effort is a bit off really.

@SoupDragon

She's unwilling to accept help in the form of advice from others or help herself. Constantly complaining and unwilling to do anything.

In my line of work there is an incredibly fine line between a reason and an excuse and I've become well averse to spotting the differences.

These, my soup loving friend, are excuses

@Graphista

Sounds like you've got it covered. Can we assume this is now sorted and your happy?

Quite honestly NotMyRealName0 it's not my responsibility to make myself MORE ill so it's easier for others to deal with me. I did that for YEARS and this is where it's landed me!

Nor is it my job to convince you I am genuine - if you don't believe I am please do report me. At the moment I have SWATHES of evidence I can provide mnhq with to prove how I'm currently living (or rather existing)

And to accuse a disabled person of using it as an excuse (HOW would my making all this up if I were not genuinely needing alternative arrangements in any way benefit me?) is really very offensive.

Graphista this is absolutely not meant in a sarcastic way, but genuine - do you think this thread is helping you? I think I would find it stressful in your shoes, and it seems to be getting a bit circular and argumentative. I don't think anyone will come up with any more solutions/advice than you've had already.

You have a lot on your plate. Is this really beneficial or helpful for you at the moment?

OP/ExpertTypist (with Administrative experience)

Before you go, WHAT is with the capitals?

Hi OP, I haven't read the full thread so apologies if this has been suggested.

There's 100 carrier bags on eBay for £2.89. The generally come quite compact so hopefully shouldn't take much space.

Would you have somewhere small and sterile to store them? And then re-use as bin bags as you usually do?

rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F260839763334

ACertainSupermarket - I totally understand your wish not to state which supermarket.

I am aware on a...cerebral level? That the groceries aren't sterile, I've worked in retail! But unfortunately OCD gives the APPEARANCE of logic but really isn't logical. Hence "disorder" it's not a logical, functional condition.

"I have no experience of OCD at all, but isn't it terribly frustrating for you? With your other conditions, it seems as though you have no life enjoyment and that's so sad. Is there no treatment for it?"

It IS incredibly frustrating. Thank you for acknowledging that, I suspect a few pps seem to have the idea I somehow enjoy all this bollocks!

For many years I was able to hide my compulsions and do them in secret. But as time went on and it escalated this became increasingly difficult.

After having dd had my first really bad flare up. I basically "powered through" early motherhood.

Then my ex cheated and we split and a whole host of other shit happened culminating in a car accident when some numpty pratting on their phone hit me!

A couple weeks after me doing an "I'm fiiiine" load of nonsense I had my first breakdown. And it was a belter! Hallucinations, aphasia, temporary tunnel vision the lot! Never been so scared in my life!! I thought I was having a stroke initially. Thankfully a friend was fantastic and got me the help I needed (happened on a bloody bank holiday weekend - typical!)

Crisis team were brought in and I was shocked and not a little scared to learn that a lot of things I do that I DIDN'T think of as "OCD stuff" is.

A friend a few years back commented that she'd never noticed me doing anything "odd" when we'd spent time together. We were on an evening out when we had this discussion so I was actually quite well at this point. I checked if ok with her but said if she was interested I'd happily verbalise every time I had an OCD thought or had to do a compulsion that evening. Within the first couple of hours she was like "omg it's EVERYTHING you do" yep!

It is frustrating, exhausting, soul destroying. I have often had times when I've just accidentally missed a "step" in a ritual (which means I have to start all over again) and I've just broken down and sobbed! Then taken a deep breath, started the ritual all over again and collapsed after.

As for treatment? There is no cure.

The best they've been able to come up with is a combination of cbt with erp (exposure response prevention - so basically treating all the thoughts, anxieties and compulsions as you would a phobia. Patients are instructed to eg if they normally wash their hands 5 times to only do it 4 times and "stay with the feeling" [i Fucking hate that phrase by this point] the theory being that the body cannot maintain a state of anxiety indefinitely (ha!) and so if the patient just doesn't complete the compulsion but waits out the resulting anxiety they will eventually feel calm again and "learn" that not completing the compulsion hasn't harmed them.)

The supposed ideal is that this is combined with medication (which is very much trial and error I'm on my 5th antidepressant) and a support worker providing encouragement and monitoring carrying out the practical parts of the therapy.

In 13 years I haven't ever been receiving all the treatments at the same time, due to a combination of ltd availability of psychologists and timing issues so when I was seeing psychologists I was having issues with meds and support workers weren't available.

Hypnotherapy has been tried by many with OCD but is generally considered contraindicated as its unpredictable and can make things worse.

Rtms (basically a low level ect type treatment, electrical stimulation if the brain)

Deep brain stimulation which is also a form of ect but surgical so the brain is exposed and targeted electrical stimulation is applied.

The latter 2 studies are very much still in infancy I believe so not known how effective.

I totally get people signing up for trials of these as we can feel pretty desperate at times.

I haven't left my flat in 21 months at this point, I feel cut off from the world and that I'm letting dd down on a daily basis which breaks my heart.

Calling the store manager - I'm waiting on a call back as it happens, sorry forgot to update on this.

What do you do with the plastic bags your shopping usually comes in?

I reuse them.

Dd uses them for a variety of things (she doesn't have OCD) and when she is finished with them/they're almost past using I use them as bin liners.

These, my soup loving friend, are excuses

No, they are reasons. And I am definitely not your friend.

@N0tmyrealname0 would love to know what your "line of work" is (think I can probably guess unfortunately)