Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

For all those asking who will adopt all the unwanted babies, there are queues of infertile couples wanting babies

If I had an unwanted pregnancy, I'd much rather have a termination than go through pregnancy, birth and relinquishing a baby.

As for all the infertile couples... pregnant women who don't want a baby owe them nothing.

I also think there are lots of comments made about prolifers not doing anything to make life better for women struggling with a pregnancy they cannot afford/ cope with but many of the people I know who are really passionate about this, do get involved with charities who offer practical/ emotional and financial support to woman, whether they have the baby or abort.

OP literally admitted to "not my problem,I won't do anything about it" . She just wants less abortions with none of the work put in.

@bbgxd and @Moomin8

I agree it is important to be scientifically accurate when discussing abortion and fetal development. Otherwise women are not informed and therefore whatever choice they make does not meet the requirements of informed consent.

@Wiltshirelass2019
“Women’s rights means access to abortion services, so it’s a necessary evil in my opinion. Perhaps we need better access to contraception and better education on the subject of contraception.“

Quite, I would argue too that we need better contraception as recent studies have shown that IRL it fails more often than the 1% advertised on the package.

“I agree it is important to be scientifically accurate when discussing abortion and fetal development.”

Which is why I asked Moomin how big the embryo in the picture was.

It's not a horrible thing WiltshireLass, any more than lots of procedures.

There aren’t queues of perfect adoptive parents waiting for all the aborted babies. How ridiculous.

The “pro lifers” always seem very selective about the scientific accuracy they want...

Forced adoption is a terrible thing too, believe me. If you’re claiming to care about the mental health of the mother, that is.

@StockTakeFucks
“Even so, the number of people willing to adopt is much less than the number of kids in care, including babies and really young children(up to 3).”

In the US, the adoption waiting list is usually around 2 million couples, while the children (all ages) in care are usually around 450,000. Abortions are between 1 million and 1.5 million per year, with 1% or 10k-15k being late term abortion.

So quite literally, there are enough couples willing to adopt...for all kids in care plus all viable late term foetuses that are currently being aborted.

As you have rightly pointed out, couples prefer babies to older kids which is very very sad. Not the least because kids in the foster care system have a very high risk of child death due to neglect, abuse, suicide. The adoption process does need major reforms.

@BertrandRussell
“The “pro lifers” always seem very selective about the scientific accuracy they want”

To be fair, both pro life and pro choice advocates are guilty of this! This thread is full of inaccuracies from both sides.

Just want to add adoptions can also be done by someone the mother knows, it doesn't trace to be a stranger/closed adoption. I know many women unable to conceive who would be willing to adopt.

I think a newborn has a good chance of being adopted, providing they have no health problems. It's really the older children who struggle to find homes.

You don't really hear of newborns being left in foster care their whole life- maybe in the past, but not now.

As you have rightly pointed out, couples prefer babies to older kids which is very very sad

Which is why I hate adoption being seen as a saintly, selfless act. Surely if adopters genuinely cared, they'd happily adopt older, troubled children...

@Saucery
There aren’t queues of perfect adoptive parents waiting for all the aborted babies. How ridiculous.

Just a quick google will tell you that your statement is not true. I am absolutely fine with women preferring to terminate instead of puttting the baby up for adoption. But every woman deserves accurate information instead of misinformation. Currently, for every child adopted, there are 36 willing couples looking to adopt. Not all are infertile, many are LGBT couples.
www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families

@formerbabe
“Which is why I hate adoption being seen as a saintly, selfless act. Surely if adopters genuinely cared, they'd happily adopt older, troubled children...hmm”

Agree completely. Adoption is saintly/selfless but less so if the couple only want a newborn. The more restrictive they are about “preferences” for age, sex, race, abled etc, the less saintly they are! Because then at the other extreme it’s more like ordering a car or accessory than giving a child a chance at a better life- so not selfless at all. Mommy Dearest is a good movie about how some people will adopt for purely selfish reasons.

You’re using US statistics which are largely irrelevant as both their adoption and abortion laws are very different to in the UK so the numbers won’t add up.

In the UK there are around 70,000 children already in care and around 5,000 adoptions a year. There are around 200,000 abortions a year in the UK.

I understand that if there were more babies available to be adopted (rather than older children or sibling groups) more people might wish to adopt - but 200,000 a year? And it’s very unusual for a baby to be placed straight from birth to an adoptive family in the UK, usually there will be an initial need for foster carers.

As much as the idea of all unwanted foetuses being carried to term and then adopted by loving couples may sound appealing to some anti-abortionists the truth is the social care system in this country is already overstretched and that realistically there are unlikely to be enough potential adopters for the number of babies that would be born. Large swathes of the babies would end up in the care system for life and faced with all of the disadvantages and poor outcomes that come with being brought up in care.

The skills and temprament needed to successfully adopt an older, troubled child are very different from those needed to adopt a newborn. I would never criticise anyone for not feeling up to it.

The skills and temprament needed to successfully adopt an older, troubled child are very different from those needed to adopt a newborn. I would never criticise anyone for not feeling up to it

Neither would I. However, I also wouldn't make out that someone adopting a baby is a saint or that adoption is a totally selfless act. Is adoption about providing parents for children or about providing children for parents?

“You’re using US statistics which are largely irrelevant as both their adoption and abortion laws are very different to in the UK so the numbers won’t add up.”

Yes, because the thread is about the movie Unplanned which is set in the US, directed by a US former Planned Parenthood worker, and about abortion in the US with US mothers. I don’t think using US statistics are irrelevant to a discussion out a US abortion documentary

In the UK there are around 70,000 children already in care and around 5,000 adoptions a year. There are around 200,000 abortions a year in the UK.

I understand that if there were more babies available to be adopted (rather than older children or sibling groups) more people might wish to adopt - but 200,000 a year? And it’s very unusual for a baby to be placed straight from birth to an adoptive family in the UK, usually there will be an initial need for foster carers.*

If these babies were all born I'd imagine many of the parents wouldn't go the adoption route as it's so hard to give away a baby and they'd just keep them.

If people want to make U.K. specific statements, then that is fine. But any blanket generalization I will naturally assume is regarding the US because that’s what this thread established as the baseline country we are talking about.

"As for all the infertile couples... pregnant women who don't want a baby owe them nothing"

Absolutely spot on.

Yes, abortion in the UK is permisable up to birth (yes that's right,to full term) for babies with conditions such as Downs syndrome, cleft palate and club foot. Just cos something is legal does it make it right? In the UK abortion for ANY reason up to 24 weeks, in the rest of Europe for the most part it's 12 weeks. I'm all for INFORMED choice.

Have you read the full thread? The discussion has not really been about the US film - the OP has said she’s upset at the number of abortions in ‘our society’ (meaning the UK) and the second post refers to the number of abortions in the UK being high compared to many other countries which then sparked further discussion about abortion in the UK. Most of this thread has been about abortion in the UK, not rates in the US. The film was just the trigger for the OP to think about abortion but as I’ve read it this thread hasn’t been a discussion about the film (most posting haven’t seen it) or about abortion practices in the US - largely the discussion points and statistics mentioned seems to be referring to the UK as far as I can see (outside of your posts).

Ok, so regarding the US or U.K., it is largely immaterial how many abortions there are versus adoptive couples because no one is advocating outlawing abortion and forcing adoption (at least I’m not).

I just think in making a decision to abort or not, women should be given up to date information regarding adoption possibilities (relative to her country) so that she can make an informed decision. Given that, only a small % will/do choose adoption. Perhaps more so in the US where there are wait lists of couples than in the U.K. where there are not.

That’s why I am ok in principle with the various state laws that require pregnant women to be given information about the fetal development stages and adoption prior to having an adoption. I know lots of pro-choice advocates that scream this is wrong, and make emotional arguments but I don’t agree with either side keeping women uninformed. With the right to choose comes the responsibility for the decision. I think regret to have or not have an abortion, largely comes from finding out a piece of information that was withheld from you after the fact. Keeping women in the dark hurts them.