Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

If you are pro choice...

356 replies

Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 19:31

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 30/05/2019 21:13

I think of myself as strongly pro choice but I can't accept that 'at any stage for any reason' is ok.

I have a friend who had a termination at 20 weeks (not in the UK) because she 'changed her mind'. I am absolutely sure that there was much more to it than that including undiagnosed mental health problems but I can't help but feel that at this stage of pregnancy a better option would have been support for her.

Magellan50 · 30/05/2019 21:13

I realise that this is an extreme situation but I do think it's relevant:
I was in an abusive relationship for just over 10 years which resulted in 6 children. I had my first at 21 and was in no stable position to bring up a child. I planned to have an abortion but my partner at the time was so vehemently against it. What started off as coercion ended up with threats and physical violence. This happened five times afterwards. My youngest was conceived just before I was diagnosed with tracheal cancer and there were added risks that, if radiotherapy was necessary, that it could be harmful to my child. Thankfully, I was diagnosed early and was treated with surgery.

Anyway, my point is that I know what it's like to lose your control over these choices and how awful it is. I fully accept that not everyone is comfortable with the idea of abortion and I do understand that. But, to say that you don't think women should be allowed to make that choice means you are willing to subject them to something abhorrent. I may not love the idea of late term abortion but I would never want to take that option from someone. They need it for a reason.

derxa · 30/05/2019 21:15

but I personally felt that the reason was not strong enough to justify the abortion (not trying to upset/offend). I don't think you're much of a friend tbh. I hinted to a 'friend' that I was pregnant and she spread the rumour that I had an abortion. You sound just like her.

ChesterDrawsDoesntExist · 30/05/2019 21:16

I'm pro choice even though I wouldn't have an abortion myself. I fully support women making that choice for themselves.
Very early abortions are of course preferable but I can understand the need for later term abortions too. After all, we don't have an anomaly scan until 21 weeks which leaves a very short time to make that heartbreaking decision then to organise and go through with it. Very, very few women get to 24 weeks and turn around and say "Nah, actually, I've changed my mind, get rid!"

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 21:17

Derxa - she’s not my friend I’ve never met her.

OP posts:
DameFanny · 30/05/2019 21:18

OP an unborn baby has no rights, nor should it.

I repeat, I'm not a life support machine.

If you want to improve outcomes for babies, look at early years interventions, look at nursery funding, look at raising the minimum wage. These all make a real difference.

AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 30/05/2019 21:19

I'd consider myself pro choice. Not that I like abortion as such - it's just that I think it's the least bad option in many cases, and I like the thought of women being forced to carry to term even less.

I'd say that the law is about right - most abortions carried out at the upper end of the legal limit are almost always for serious abnormalities, maternal health or for very vulnerable women who would likely struggle to raise the baby.

As early as possible, as late as necessary, for any reason, but only within limits - I can't see many being comfortable with an abortion of a healthy foetus at 8 months for instance.

LadyBrienneofTarth · 30/05/2019 21:21

I find it bizarre that laws, made mostly by men, govern women's bodies - men and women should have the right to govern their own bodies

I find it inappropriate that religious groups influence the abortion debate so severely as I believe in the separation of church and state - everyone has the right to believe their own faith, no one has the right to impose their beliefs on others (imagine other religious believes as part of a national debate and campaign like only eat fish in Friday's Or do not participate in any labor on the sabbath)

The only argument that carries any weight with me if where the unborn child might be able to live outside the womb ... and even then, those seeking to restrict or control access to abortion aren't proposing countermeasures to compensate for removing access .. such as requiring men to care for the child in their own home until the child is an adult, or requiring the man to equally contribute to the welfare of the child (and not just child maintenance), or requiring the man to reduce his career prospects so he can stay behind and care for the child.

As long as society is so imbalanced and women not treated/viewed equally, abortion will be sought by desperate women as a necessity ... and restricting access will just push that service underground into kitchens and alleyways thereby threatening the life of the mother also

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/05/2019 21:22

Yes I am pro choice

Females should always have full autonomy over their own bodies

I have had two terminations I feel no guilt or regret about he choice i could thankfully make for myself

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 21:24

Damefanny - I do believe an unborn baby should have rights and that it does. However I also believe the mother has rights and this is why I struggle with being somewhere in between pro choice/pro life.

OP posts:
spugzbunny · 30/05/2019 21:25

@yummyscummymummy01

Absolutely this. I am pro choice ... even at 24 weeks as I believe this isn't a decision anyone would make lightly. I would also like to think that some serious counselling would be provided.

Personally though, i have also been firm with partners that any accidental pregnancy would be kept although there are certain medical conditions that I wouldn't want to continue with if I felt the baby would suffer.

That is my choice and I'm so grateful that I have that choice and that other women do too.

MrsAmaretto · 30/05/2019 21:27

I’m pro choice. Before the last couple of years I was pro choice but I did believe that it shouldn’t be done later than a certain date etc. Etc.

But now, with the attacks on women’s rights I’m very much in the MN definition of a Pro Choice.

I can’t imagine having an abortion, but I will take to the streets to protect the rights of other women to have a choice.

CloudPop · 30/05/2019 21:31

@Superbirdtrooperbird you were, and remain, very brave. Very best wishes to you.

derxa · 30/05/2019 21:34

Derxa - she’s not my friend I’ve never met her. You're a horrible gossip then.

spugzbunny · 30/05/2019 21:35

Sorry I'm reading and replying so to add to my reply...

Why would I not have one personally despite being pro choice?

Because although it doesn't always feel like it, I come from a background that I know I can always provide for a child. I have always desperately wanted a baby (and now have one) and I didn't ever feel like there was a wrong time or wrong place for bringing up a child if it came unexpected. This obviously doesn't consider any medical issues and that would be a different situation entirely.

Myusernameismud · 30/05/2019 21:36

Thank you @cloudpop.

Superbirdtrooperbird · 30/05/2019 21:37

Oh, name change fail Blush
Thank you @cloudpop

irnbruforlife · 30/05/2019 21:39

I'd probably say I was pro choice within the current legal parameters. So by mn standards probably not pro choice. I certainly dont agree with any reason at any stage and would actively be campaigning against legalising post 24 week abortions for any reason. I'd point out that the reason that there is so few 24+ abortions is because its against the law for anything other than specific medical reasons, not because women are choosing not to have one so I tend to eyeroll when I hear that trotted out as a justification why any reason any stage should be legalised.

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 21:41

Derxa - a post on mumsnet is not gossiping

OP posts:
PickleC · 30/05/2019 21:54

Absolutely pro-choice. I'd be lying if I said that personally it wouldn't be a harder decision at a later stage than it would be very early on but I wouldn't feel comfortable judging any other woman's choice at any stage of pregnancy. Knowing that only just over 100 abortions happen after 24 weeks in the UK I can only imagine the awful circumstances that may lead to decisions being made and would support those women.

The important thing for me is that there aren't unnecessary delays in accessing services, counselling is available if requested but not imposed (often another way for those who are anti choice to try to put in restrictions and slow it down)and that people don't need to travel unneccessarily far (an increasing risk for surgical abortions). It is crazy to me that there still needs to be consent from two doctors as opposed to this being entirely a woman's decision.

spugzbunny · 30/05/2019 21:55

Thank you to the posters who have talked about their own stories. It's easy for us to talk about the hypothetical but the reality is a lot different.

SoyDora · 30/05/2019 21:56

Doubledoubledenim your friend is gossiping by telling you, though.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 30/05/2019 21:56

I believe all woman should have the RIGHT to have an abortion.
I think those having late abortions have their own good reasons for doing it. I would support an extension to deadlines for certain vulnerable groups such as Under 16s (or offering inductions/csections) beyond a sensible cut off as an alternative for them

I believe that you can never ban abortion, just access for safe supported abortion.
I don't believe men should have any say in individual abortion decisions (as in father's, not medical staff)

vdbfamily · 30/05/2019 21:58

I was quite struck recently on the Surgeons programme that the one involving children featured two toddlers needing surgery, both of whom had parents who were told they had conditions 'incompatible with life' and were encouraged to terminate. If you do a Google search you will find hundreds of stories of parents strongly urged to terminate who gave birth to totally healthy babies, or babies who have had easily treatable health issues.
I think that there should be far more support to couples to consider carrying to term babies with possible medical conditions.
I know a mum who had 2 babies with acephaly but she chose to birth them at term and nurse them and love them for the few days each one lived. Many people are not presented with this as a choice and although it is desperately hard, so is chosing to end your babies life.
There is far far too much pressure to have an abortion these days to a point where couples are literally having to argue to keep their baby and that is not right at all.

DameFanny · 30/05/2019 22:02

"I do believe an unborn baby should have rights and that it does"

Luckily your beliefs aren't the law in the UK, unlike the religious extremism on the rise in the States.

And are you bothered by the rights of the potential baby, or the well-being of actual babies? Because as I say there's a lot more good to be done by looking out for actual babies and their parents