If you are pro choice...

[Doubledoubledenim]

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

I had an abortion at 19 weeks. I was 16, and kept my pregnancy a secret until I was (unbeknown to me as I hadn't got my head around dates) 17 weeks.
I finally told my mum, who took me to the doctor to discuss 'our options'. The female GP did an exam, and then told me I was too far along to terminate even though I'd said that's what I wanted. She got out the doppler and made me listen to the baby's heartbeat. I left feeling utterly broken.

A week later, my much older sister took me to the local family planning clinic and I saw a doctor and explained what had happened with the GP. The Dr was horrified, and was without a doubt the most sympathetic, caring medical professional I've ever met. She helped me write a formal complaint against the GP, which resulted in her leaving the practice 'through mutual agreement' although I feel she should have been struck off. She was Irish and had a picture of the Sacret Heart of Jesus on her desk, so clearly Catholic and I'm under no illusion thats what influenced her to advise me the way she did.

The family planning doctor booked me in for a medical termination under general anaesthetic, which was probably one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I had felt that baby move, and heard its little heart beating, but I was 16 years old and the baby's dad had told me he wasn't interested in having anything to do with us.

From my own personal experience, I am still pro choice. My life would be very different now had I carried that baby to term. I think of her often, but it was the right choice for me and I'd like to think that choice is available to all women.

100% pro choice.
I'm very thankful that it's not a decision I've ever had to make but I think that every woman should be able to choose to become a mother or not.

@Rystall, what is your understanding of what happens with an abortion at say 30/32 weeks, as per your example?

Just had a little cry writing all that down, I haven't told many people that story.

Housename - no not my decision and I would never have said to anyone going personally through that anything to make them feel upset or uncomfortable. But surely I am able to discuss this subject on an anonymous forum? I am unsure of my own views and feel very interested in other people’s.

I think that abortions should be available even in circumstances where I would nudge and disapprove of the choice to have an abortion. Because I think that the alternative, of forcing women to carry pregnancies to term against their will, is far worse than legal abortion.

And while there are circumstances in which I, personally, believe that abortion is wrong, the fault is generally with society as a whole rather than individual women, so rather than banning abortion for sex selection, I'd crack down on prenatal sex checks, address sexism within the wider society and provide support and incentives for people to choose to have babies of the "wrong" sex. I don't think it's up to individual mothers to carry the burden for the failings of the wider society.

Basically, I think that as long as decent support and counselling is available before an abortion for people who are unsure of what they want to do, then the choice to have one is generally the least worst choice in those particular circumstances.

Conceived through rape I used to think along these lines, of course if the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest but then it was posted (prob here) that this is punishing a woman for having sex for fun, so no, I dont feel that abortion is ok for just for incest/rape

@Rystall seriously? So the baby doesn't feel more pain or fear than necessary, so the women doesn't have the trauma of carrying the dying baby for any longer than necessary with the risks involved to her, so she doesn't have to go into labour at home by herself, so the mother doesn't have to see her baby born, possibly crying and breathing and then watch it die.

Absolutely pro choice, early as possible, late as necessary.

Nobody has an abortion for the fun of it. If there are women using them as birth control then they're likely to seek early abortions, and likely to have some sort of mental health or social issue if they believe that is the only way to ensure they don't have a baby.

Late term abortions, I can't imagine anyone would make that choice lightly. There would have to be pretty strong reasons for not continuing a pregnancy past the point of viability. Why force a woman to become a mother. She may suffer, the child may suffer as a result. Are we not just passing the problem forwards?

I wouldn't have a late term abortion at this moment in time as my life is stable, and I know I can cope. However, if things were to change and there was DA, SA, a whole myriad of potential things to consider, I can't say I wouldn't have one if it was in the best interests of the future child and I.

Early as possible. Late as necessary.

I found out my son had anencephaly at 22 weeks. Far far later than normal.

I could carry him til he died (inevitable- anencephaly isn't survivable. I believe the longest a baby has lived is 20 hours)or I could "abort" him. I'm part of the late term statistic. I'm the less than 1% who abort that late. There is, therefore in my opinion, always a reason. I had to birth my dead, deformed son. It was very bad at 24 weeks. Should I have carried him longer? Until he died at 26? 30? 34 weeks? Until 37 weeks upon normal birth? Knowing from that 22+1 point that he is dead. Every kick. Waiting for the last kick. Scans weekly until he dies? Half a year taken up, whilst my mental health frankly melts waiting till the kicks stop? Hoping till they stop? Waiting til I can drink wine and block the pain? Drinking anyway because he's a fucking dead foetus waiting?!

Late term is very rare. Largely for medical reason.

@Superbirdtrooperbird

I do class myself as prochoice, I do see it as ending a babies life rather than ‘just a clump of cells’ like some people refer to 8/10 weeks as on here sometimes. I don’t have a defined date in my mind of when it becomes a baby, an unplanted fertilised egg for sure isn’t in my mind and yet some people class the morning after pill as an abortion, I don’t see it as anything other than emergency contraception.

I don’t know when I feel it’s ‘too late’, I would be very anti if someone casually changed their mind at 23 weeks and wanted an abortion as that is a baby ready to come out into the world. It’s such a tiny % of people though who would be casual about that rather than for medical reasons- either mums medical reasons or baby

Not sure if that makes sense.

There is a MNer who had a baby who had a condition that was incompatible with life, she wasn't able to terminate because she lived in NI. She herself ended up in physical agony due to some kind of fluid build up I believe. The physical and MH of the mother would be a good reason to terminate in those circumstances Rystall.

I didn’t even mention late terminations due to the baby’s condition as that is different to wanting a termination. That is a much loved and wanted baby who parents make what they feel is their best decision for,

I am pro choice. Any other position is to undermine a woman’s right to her personal freedom.

@tunt- I honestly don’t know. I often read or hear people refer to it as akin to giving birth. Hence the question.

@bwydda. I’m sorry you went through that. It sounds horrifically tough. Thank you for the insight x

@kaytee87. Thank you too. Honestly it was a genuine question.

I wouldn't have an abortion but it gives me no right to dictate to another woman what she should do. Choice is just that, however far gone a woman is in her pregnancy.

I honestly think each to their own.
Everyone has their reasons.

If someone managed to get to 24 weeks (knowingly) pregnant, and then decided to have a termination. Then they have a bloody good and personal reason to do so.

You don't know what's going on in peoples lives or in their minds. We can judge someone for having a termination that could potentially end up giving the child a less than adequate life.

I've just found out I'm pregnant, it was planned so obviously I don't need to make a choice. But for example: I know for a fact, if my child had a physical or mental disability that would need 24hr care, that came up at the 20 week scan. I would terminate, without a doubt.
I know in my heart I could not care for a child in that predicament. Its also not fair to being a child into the world who watches other children run play and learn while they struggle to eat and cant wash themselves.

But that's an extreme view. I know a lot of people with children with disabilities, and I love playing with them and helping them, but after a fee hours with them it makes me realise how tough it is for the parents, I could never be that strong.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

I'm frankly shocked at posters like Rystall who think that abortion is somehow worse than having to carry a non viable pregnancy one second longer than necessary.

Or posters who can't understand that someone may not be able to be a single parent if a relationship has broken down or turned toxic.

I'm a woman, not a life support machine.

I've had one, very much wanted child - and had a massive scare at 16 weeks when the triple test came back 1 in 4 for Edwards. Luckily we got cleared on an amnio, but I was ready to terminate if we hadn't because I wasn't about to put my own child through the pain of being born with a condition and outcome like that.

That's the true brutality, not abortion.

Spartacus I used BPAS as well, they were incredible. I was treated with a kindness and compassion that I'm unable to fully put into words. I'm so grateful they were there, and that in this country we have access to them.

Thanks @bluestitch.

It’s not actually a women’s free choice in U.K. law. It has to be approved by two doctors and they must agree on the reason for a termination to be in line with the Abortion Act.

In practice, it’s a free choice up to around 20 weeks. After that gestation far fewer providers are licensed to conduct abortions and far fewer doctors would carry them out for non essential reasons - by non essential I mean it would usually have to be for medical reasons not social.

Hardly any take place after 24 weeks and it is only if the mother’s life is at risk or the infant is likely to be born with very significant disabilities. After 24 weeks it has to be via an NHS provider not MSI or BPAS.

In 2017 only 8 abortions were because of a risk to the life of the mother or risk of permanent serious injury to the mother. Less than 1.8 % of abortions occur at or after 21 weeks gestation

Most abortions are social abortions carried out below 13 weeks. The late abortion arguments don’t really hold up because they are so rare and the circumstances usually quite tragic. They’re not about women suddenly deciding they don’t fancy having a baby.

The statistics speak for themselves. Those of us having late are rare. The vast majority are early. The whole "it's how late it goes is the problem" argument, is ridiculous when compared to the figures. It's a smoke screen that generally allows for more and more extreme ownership over women's bodies and their choices.