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Original poster

If you are pro choice...

356 replies

Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 19:31

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

OP posts:
DameFanny · 30/05/2019 22:03

Disclaimer for that last for the appalling state of affairs in Northern Ireland :-(

Sagradafamiliar · 30/05/2019 22:05

I don't know why you're grappling with your stance, OP, if you're not in the situation yourself. What does your opinion matter unless it's to do with your own body? It won't change anything after all. Women will still make the best decisions for themselves regardless.
I know personally of two women who terminated their pregnancies after 20 weeks due to relationship breakdowns. What struck me is that neither would have gone ahead with them if it weren't for the fathers being utter life-ruining shits so if I was to judge, I know where I'd be looking.

BuildBuildings · 30/05/2019 22:06

Yep pro choice within the legal limit. I know for myself I'd want it as early as possible and can imagine that a common preference. However as others have said as late as necessary is also important as some abnormalities are picked up late in pregnancy.

Notmyrealname855 · 30/05/2019 22:06

Pro choice. Haven’t had an abortion myself but i could never say what I’d do in that position - go for it or not, or if I’d regret it or not, or be more pro or anti it in future years.

But I know I’ll always want people to have the choice.

The reasons for an abortion are so extremely complicated, and legislation always feels like a blunt tool to a delicate issue. I support the current timeframes, and support later abortions for medical reasons.

I’m frustrated sometimes by the term “pro life”, as it can mean you’re pro the child’s life but not the parents’. And so few of those people will help with the child’s quality of life, fostering is so rare and rarely done well, and no one helps when that child is 18 and out of an already badly supported system.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/05/2019 22:09

I'd point out that the reason that there is so few 24+ abortions is because its against the law for anything other than specific medical reasons

This is true, and I'm comfortable with it. For me it's a good thing that post-viability abortion's available in truly extreme circumstances, but I find the "for any reason" thing too much

If we go too far down that road, we'll soon start to see suggestions such as the one on a recent AMA - that parents should be able to kill a living baby if they consider its quality of life insufficient

TastingTheRainbow · 30/05/2019 22:09

Pro choice for me means in line with UK law. I have to say though, as a midwife who cares for women having late abortions 20 weeks plus, I have NEVER met anyone having an abortion at this point that did not have a very good reason. Very few are done at this gestation and it’s usually because of a problem detected on the 20 week ultrasound.

MoominMantra · 30/05/2019 22:11

I'm pro-choice. I have no right to an opinion on what other people decide to do with their own bodies. Though I personally could not have an abortion myself.

duckme · 30/05/2019 22:12

I fall somewhere in the middle. Personally, I don't think I could have one unless there was a medical reason to or if the pregnancy was a result of a sexual assault. I struggle a bit when I hear of people having them because they didn't use protection, though I would never question their decision. In fact, I wouldn't ever question any woman's decision to terminate a pregnancy, even if I didn't agree with it. It's a very personal decision.

lifeinthedeep · 30/05/2019 22:15

I’m pro choice and I’m pretty happy with the abortion laws in the U.K. Nevertheless, I would never condone abortion to full term or after 24 weeks. If I’m honest, I’m pretty horrified at the idea of abortion after around 12 weeks but I wouldn’t judge.

A friend of mine attended an abortion while doing her nursing training. The feotus was nearly 24 weeks and, for some reason, it was ‘born’ alive. She had to stay with it until it died and has been fairly traumatised since.

QOD · 30/05/2019 22:16

I’m pro choice as early as possible as late as necessary HOWEVER i did find it hard to deal with a half sister having a termination at 25 weeks HOWEVER her dh was seriously ill and she did end up a very very young widow
I support anyone’s right to make that decision though

TastingTheRainbow · 30/05/2019 22:24

@lifeinthedeep I would be very doubtful your friends story is accurate. If an abortion is done when a fetus could be born alive feticide is done first to stop the heart.

IF for any reason this wasn’t done and the baby is then born alive at that point they have a right to live and a medical professional would HAVE to intervene and try and save them even if they were being aborted. To not do so is classed as murder / manslaughter. Hence why feticide is done prior.

KennDodd · 30/05/2019 22:29

Pro choice up to the point of viability (or very shortly before) so the law as it stands seems fine for me. If you have a abortion of a healthy viable fetus at 30 weeks say, you could argue that the women has a right to say what happens to her body but not the baby. So, has the right not to be pregnant, have the baby delivered early and then it can fend for itself. It's no longer just about what happens to her. It other situations, the baby is considered, for example medics would not xrays or give certain medical treatments to a pregnant women even if she wanted them.

bwydda · 30/05/2019 22:30

Lifeindeep- your story is unbelievable. That's just not how late termination works. Please spend some time learning before you pass on a "well my mate said" type story that isn't synonymous with actual medical procedures

spugzbunny · 30/05/2019 22:32

@TastingTheRainbow

Thank you. False information like this is how we end up in Alabama

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 22:37

Damefannny - I am bothered by the rights of unborn babies, born babies and mothers/women. There are some circumstances that I absolutely agree abortion is justified and others when I don’t. This is why I am unable to call myself prochoice.

Sagradafamiliar - I grapple with my own stance because I find it hard to place where I stand on the matter. It’s a very prominent issue at the moment so I have thought about it a lot and find it easier to discuss and ask the view of others on an anonymous forum.

OP posts:
Pinkvoid · 30/05/2019 22:51

People who have abortions as late as 24 weeks most often do it because they have no other choice. It’s almost always for medical reasons and is a very sensitive, delicate and horrendous situation to be in. I highly doubt any woman has ever had an abortion at that stage for the crack... They have to give birth, it’s not a nice process at all and will likely stay with them forever.

The vast majority of terminations are carried out in the first 12 weeks, mostly under 9 weeks actually when it’s still an embryo so you just take a couple of pills and have a heavy period. I don’t think that is barbaric in any way, what I do find barbaric is the notion of forced pregnancy.

InsertFunnyUsername · 30/05/2019 22:52

But why do you find it hard to decide where you stand on the matter?

That's what i don't understand. Surely aslong as when you're pregnant you're not forced to abort, or continue a pregnancy then how you feel on other women's choices is irrelevant.

Spikeyball · 30/05/2019 22:55

Her body, her choice. Whatever I might personally feel about any particular situation is irrelevant.

BlueSkiesLies · 30/05/2019 22:56

I am pro choice and I do not see the difference in a termination at 2 or 24 weeks.

As late as needed. For whatever reason. Which can just be “I don’t want to carry this child to term” IMO.

Babdoc · 30/05/2019 22:57

When I was young, abortion was illegal in Britain. That didn’t stop it happening - it just stopped it happening safely in hospitals. Instead, it was performed by untrained back street abortionists in insanitary conditions. Women developed septic shock or uncontrolled haemorrhage, and many died or were left sterile afterwards.
If they tried to seek medical help for such complications, both they and the abortionist were liable to prosecution and imprisonment.
Is that what you’d like to go back to, OP?
Because if not, just stop debating it and be damn grateful you live in a civilised era when women are regarded as human beings with bodily autonomy and reproductive rights. What a woman does with her uterus is nobody’s business but hers.
And I speak as a retired doctor who has actually seen the results of a knitting needle abortion, in a woman who felt too ashamed to go to her GP even after it was legal.

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 22:58

Insertfunnyusername - my opinion is completely irrelevant as I’m not pregnant so don’t need to make the choice. Sorry if it came across that I thought my opinion was in anyway important as I am well aware it isn’t.

It is something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately though as it’s popped up in the news, conversations with friends and mumsnet. I was just interested to see other opinions and find out how many people are “in the middle” like me and it turns out a lot more than I thought.

OP posts:
namechangedforanon · 30/05/2019 22:58

MN definition pro choicer here .

This has been an interesting thread

DramaRamaLlama · 30/05/2019 23:02

@TastingTheRainbow

If an abortion is done when a fetus could be born alive feticide is done first to stop the heart

That's not true. My son was delivered just before 24 weeks and he didn't receive the injection to stop his heart beforehand. The bereavement midwives prepared me for the fact that he may be born alive but told me if he was there would be no intervention, he would be placed on my chest and I could hold him until the end.

In the event he died before he was born, so the issue didn't arise, but it's rather unfair to dismiss lifeindeep when it seems you don't actually know the facts.

This was in a London teaching hospital.

Original poster
Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 23:05

Thanks again for all replies - I’m going to exit now as it’s a bit frustrating to have posters say I shouldn’t be debating/discussing this. I personally think that’s one of the things this forum is for.

OP posts:
pallisers · 30/05/2019 23:07

I believe in abortion on demand up to the point of viability (and I don't mean the tiniest baby in the world who survived- I mean real viability). After that I think it is a medical decision that a woman should make in consultation with her doctors.

If I had to chose between a system where a woman could terminate for any reason up to, say, 32 weeks and a system where a woman did not have access to abortion at all, I'd chose the former. I trust women to make the best decisions for themselves and their children and early easy access to abortion will generally rule out most late term abortions. But I think it is just silly to pretend that aborting a fetus that could survive outside the womb is the same moral event as aborting a 12 week old fetus and doesn't help the argument with anti-choice people. Equally their insistence that a 6 week old embryo is a baby just the same as a 32 week old fetus is just silly and doesn't help the argument.