If you are pro choice...

[Doubledoubledenim]

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

@DameFanny. I never said that. Please read my posts. I asked a question. I never made a judgement. Someone close to me is going through something similar hence my question.

The legal framework in England, Scotland and Wales is OK.

I used to be a bit more uncertain about late term abortions until I found out more about them. Statistically, they are really rare for a start. No one is having at abortion at 24 weeks because they changed their mind. The vast vast majority happen due to previously undetected foetal abnormalities. If it isn't because of that (incredibly rare) it's because of some kind of terrible tragedy such as a young victim of child abuse not knowing she was pregnant.

Any one of these late abortions is enough of a horrific and sad story as it is without adding in legal difficulties.

You judge a friend’s stated reason for having a late abortion (relationship breakdown): you may well not know the full facts. It seems unlikely she would have made the decision easily.

I’m pro-choice but to me that doesn’t mean “at any time, for any reason”. I realise that in the real world, women don’t have late terminations for the hell of it, but in theory the idea of terminating a healthy pregnancy once the foetus is viable is pretty abhorrent.

Ok Rystall, but did you not think that even just having to give birth when it's later and larger would be more onerous?

I hope your friends or relative is ok and getting the support they need

I am pro choice for multiple reasons.

I don't think anyone's feelings on the matter apart from the pregnant woman should come into it. I don't believe there should be a grey area either. It should be black or white, rather than asking do you agree with abortions, Ask "Should the goverment be able to tell you what you can and can't do with your body" the answer should always be No.

I also like "Not my womb, not my business"

Before the vote over there, I read the story of a woman in NI pregnant with twins. In late pregnancy one of the twins died and the hospital could do nothing but monitor her for signs of sepsis - only when she showed signs of a life threatening illness could they act, risking her life and her other baby’s life, forcing her to sit there for days carrying her dead baby, poisoning her and the other twin.

Be under no illusions: whatever your moral objections, this is the result of anti-abortion law. For the utterly minuscule number of late term abortions for “social reasons” (which are usually pretty damn serious to go through this - how do you think late term abortions are done?), what you’re really doing is making it more difficult for people who have to end much wanted pregnancies for excruciating reasons.

Pro choice all around for a few reasons. I wouldn't personally do it past a certain point and I like to hope very late terminations are a rare occurrence. But no woman makes the decision lightly and if they are at the point they'd rather abort than go ahead, they must have that option.

Abortion can also be the most responsible thing. I find it absurd that a child would HAVE to be born simply because the early cells are there.

Finally, childbirth is a massive thing and women can still die or be seriously injured. That risk should always be taken willingly.

Pro-life people might be very well intentioned but the difference in the two positions is my stance doesn't affect others, and if they don't want an abortion then they never have to have one.

Thank you to everyone who has answered it is really interesting to hear different views and nice to be able to discuss such a potentially volatile subject without it erupting.

One thing that strikes me is that some posters say people shouldn’t judge the choices of others (which I agree with although everyone will still have an opinion). However I do feel that some of these people then go on to judge those who aren’t pro choice for having that view. I find this quite hard as someone who’s in the middle.

I would assume @Rystall hasn't had a child so doesn't realise how difficult / dangerous pregnancy and childbirth can be for women, plus all of the medical appointments and time off work or away from other children on a more practical point (let alone the mental health affects of carrying a dying child). I don't think she was deliberately being unempathetic.

Being 'judged' for not being pro choice might involve a few harsh words online. Being judged over having an abortion, what stage, were your reasons satisfactory etc can literally lead to the erosion of reproductive rights. Not comparable.

I've just found out I'm pregnant, it was planned so obviously I don't need to make a choice. But for example: I know for a fact, if my child had a physical or mental disability that would need 24hr care, that came up at the 20 week scan. I would terminate, without a doubt.
I know in my heart I could not care for a child in that predicament. Its also not fair to being a child into the world who watches other children run play and learn while they struggle to eat and cant wash themselves

On one hand, I agree with you - I too would terminate if I got this information at my 12 or 20 week scan.

However, it must be said that normal scans do not guaranteee you a healthy child, free from severe disability. My twins both have disabilities and I had no idea - if you choose to have children, you can’t say “I know in my heart I could not care for a child in that predicament” because you may not have a choice. If you don’t think you could cope with caring for disabled child, you shouldn’t have children.

As early as possible, and as late as necessary.

Every child deserves to be wholeheartedly wanted, loved and well-cared for. I have the utmost respect for anyone who decides they personally cannot (or don't want to) meet a child's needs, who then terminates, rather than having the child and neglecting or resenting it. It is an honest and brave decision, that nobody wants to have to make.

No woman who does not want to be pregnant, for whatever reason, should be forced to remain pregnant.

I believe the current UK laws regarding timescales are sensible.

I dont judge people who are pro life for themselves

I judge people who are pro life for other women, who they have never met and don't know a single thing about them.

I will always be pro choice. Every woman deserves complete control over their own body.

But not for myself.

I personally find it hard (now that I'm actually a mother) the idea of terminating something that can feel things.

At 6 weeks you can hear a heart beat.

At 2 months the neural tube (brain, spine and central nervous system)is developed.

At 4 months the nervous system is starting to function.

I find that idea very hard to cope with and if I had to make a decision myself, i would not terminate past this point. I don't think I would ever terminate.

Bluestitch - yes but someone who is not pro choice might argue that being judged on this view could Damage rights of the unborn baby. Therefore they might think the consequences of judging someone who is not prochoice are worse.

"For anyone saying they wouldn’t personally have one (late abortion) but believe in other people right to do so - what are your reasons for not personally wanting to?"

To me this is exactly the same question as "why does anyone ever choose not to have a termination?". Mostly we don't need to analyse the circumstances in which we would or wouldn't make that choice - there are hundreds of different variables. If you find yourself in the position of considering it, you'll be in one very specific - possibly unique - set of unusual circumstances. Then, you'd need to gather the pros and cons as they stand at the time, and make the best decision you can on the data available.

I think there is little to be gained by thinking abstractly about this. Just respect that people make the best decision they can in the positions they find themselves in, just as you would if you had to. It is easy to sit in judgement and say you might choose differently to your friend but you don't live her life, there could be all sorts of things in the background that you know nothing about. Even having prenatal testing is a personal decision, there are very few absolutes. Everyone has their own unique set of reasons but they are specific to the circumstances at the time, not general blanket rules that they have formulated in isolation and apply blindly to this very difficult and personal decision.

"One thing that strikes me is that some posters say people shouldn’t judge the choices of others (which I agree with although everyone will still have an opinion). However I do feel that some of these people then go on to judge those who aren’t pro choice for having that view. I find this quite hard as someone who’s in the middle."

You shouldn't judge the CHOICES of others. Being judged on a choice is quite different to being judged for an OPINION. That's the point. An opinion is a theory. Ime the pro life group judge my choice regardless or any opinion, reasoning, or logic. My opinion is neither here nor there. It is my CHOICE they hate.

Judging other opinions is fair enough if not done aggressively and rudely. (Conversely- I was confident I'd never ever have an abortion. I struggled to support a friend through her choice, whilst confident that it would never be mine. Indeed- I'd never ever abort a healthy pregnancy. But I won't judge.)

I'll also add that while having a termination was the right thing for me at 16, 32 year old me wouldn't. I am in a position now where another baby would, while not planned, be something we could cope with whatever the circumstances. I'm married, DH earns a good wage and we have 2 DCs already. So yes, I had a fairly late abortion at 16 but adult me wouldn't do it again. I still support every woman's right to choose, whatever her circumstances.

Having supported women who have had late term abortions, I personally (would never let this influence my care or support) would be in favour of a reduction to 16 weeks except for serious health reasons. I’ve seen a lot of vulnerable women due to chaotic situations put off the decision until the absolute last minute. I don’t honestly think it does them a lot of good or is fair to be the living creature inside them. They would and could make the decision earlier if they had to. I think it would help them to have an earlier deadline.

I'm pro choice

I wouldn't have an abortion myself
But then that's my choice
I am glad that I have that choice and would never withhold it from anybody else