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Original poster

If you are pro choice...

356 replies

Doubledoubledenim · 30/05/2019 19:31

Name changed for this

I really want to ask some questions for anyone happy to answer about feelings on abortion. I don’t feel like its an approachable subject I can talk about IRL as everyone I know is venomously pro choice and if I start to put forward a view which isn’t the same as theirs they get really quite aggressive and defensive.

So, if you are pro choice does that include late term abortions or would you feel differently about one at 6 weeks to one at 24 weeks? Also a lot of people say it’s the woman’s body so her choice - would that reason still stand for later abortions or would you think it would need to be a serious medical reason for baby/mum to justify this? Or does pro choice mean pro choice for you meaning any reason and any time within the legal limit is ok.

I hope I’ve worded this in a completely inoffensive way as I really don’t want to upset anyone it might affect.

OP posts:
PickleC · 31/05/2019 09:24

Outoutout seemingly believes that all these 'irresponsible' ladies daring to have sex who find themselves pregnant become responsible again 9 months later. Presumably no matter their circumstances they will jump for joy at the new arrival and all the reasons they didn't wish to continue with the pregnancy will have disappeared during that time. How lucky for them.

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. For anyone else it is a choice. Women cannot and should not be unthinking incubators punished for getting pregnant.

Outofinspiration · 31/05/2019 09:25

Again, a woman worried about a baby belly in holiday pics shouldn't be having a baby in the first place.

But it's not about what is best for the baby with pro lifers is it?

It's about ensuring that women (and not men apparently) are punished for having sex... Oh sorry I mean... 'take responsibility'.

Outoutout · 31/05/2019 09:27

"Blues"

As I said in my first post. If a woman is raped or an abortion is necessary to protect the life of the mother then of course it must be an option.

A coersive relationship would be tantamount to rape would it not?

Chaotic lifestyles, addiction. Would they qualify? I would say not.

We should be clear. Abortion should be difficult to access. At the request of medical professionals only.

People will disagree. But thats my opinion.

RedForShort · 31/05/2019 09:28

InsertFunnyUsername, it's possible that this statistically improbable coincidence occurs because the need to make up stories to support the agenda thst women shouldn't be allowed to make decisions is "Depressingly true. That's the world we live in."

SoyDora · 31/05/2019 09:29

So you think women with chaotic lifestyles and addictions will be able to provide a good life for the child they were forced to birth?

MephistophelesApprentice · 31/05/2019 09:30

Until it's no longer part of her body, it's the woman's to do with as she wills.

Any reason, any time.

Damntheman · 31/05/2019 09:31

Totally pro choice. Don't judge your friend, you have no idea what she's been through or is going through. Nobody having a late term abortion is doing it for jollies or on a whim, nobody is doing it because they couldn't be arsed to use birth control by that point.

Go to facebook and find the Irish In Her Shoes group, read some stories and see how heartbreaking they are. I support any woman's choice.

Lweji · 31/05/2019 09:32

Yes I am suggesting that people shouldn't have sex.

Do you also tell gay people they can will themselves to be straight?
And addicts that they just need to stop?

Outofinspiration · 31/05/2019 09:35

As I said in my first post. If a woman is raped or an abortion is necessary to protect the life of the mother then of course it must be an option.

So what are your reasons for being against abortion then? It can't be to do with the value of the life of the foetus because its not the foetus's fault if it was conceived from rape and its life should be of the same value however it was conceived.

Which means you must be anti abortion because you want to see women punished for having sex.

How lovely Hmm

Lweji · 31/05/2019 09:35

At the request of medical professionals only.

As any other medical procedure, I'd expect that a medical professional would have to request the procedure or do it themselves.
Which is the benefit of legalising abortion, surely.

vdbfamily · 31/05/2019 09:36

I suspect everyone reading this thread knows at least one person who has had an abortion for reasons of convenience. Just started new job, wanted to go travelling first, wanted to enjoy some child free time before being surrounded by nappies, want to save for a bigger house etc etc. These are not life threatening situations, they are inconveniences. These are the women that when abortion was not legal, would not even have considered terminations. There are thousands of abortions of this type now add we live in such a throwaway society and the more effort the pro choicer s put into the lie that' it is just a blob of jelly' the more it will continue to just be another means of contraception. There are grown women who genuinely believe that a 12 week foetus is just a clump of cells. Madness and the reason it is not just down to choice but mandated in law is because like it or not, the taking of another life is a moral issue not just personal choice. These babies are the most vulnerable members of society and need some protection.

JacquesHammer · 31/05/2019 09:36

We should be clear. Abortion should be difficult to access. At the request of medical professionals only

People will disagree. But thats my opinion

Imagine being so supremely arrogant that you think your opinion should apply to other women.

Breathlessness · 31/05/2019 09:37

Pro-choice means just that. It is the woman’s right to choose what happens. You don’t have to like her choice or agree with it, just accept that it is her decision to make.

SoyDora · 31/05/2019 09:38

vdbfamily no I don’t actually. But if I did, what would be the alternative? That a woman is forced to give birth to this child that they won’t want, and to raise it for 18 years? You think that this unwanted child would have a happy and stable life?

InsertFunnyUsername · 31/05/2019 09:44

These babies are the most vulnerable members of society and need some protection

And what are pro lifers doing to protect these babies after they are born? Or does it stop at birth?

And what happens when one of the most vulnerable members of society find themselves pregnant at 14 or someone with severe MH problems gets pregnant, who are you protecting then?

Lweji · 31/05/2019 09:44

These are not life threatening situations, they are inconveniences. These are the women that when abortion was not legal, would not even have considered terminations.

You're very naive.
I was a teenager in a country where abortion was ilegal and I had heard of women having abortions for convenience.

It's difficult to judge what is convenience and what is a serious matter. Having a child involves serious commitment.
Carrying a pregnancy to term involves serious commitment to a woman's health. Even the psychological and social implications of giving up a baby are serious matters.
A pregnancy is not like trying out a different hairstyle.

Bluestitch · 31/05/2019 09:45

Chaotic lifestyles, addiction. Would they qualify? I would say not.

But your argument against abortion is that women are fully capable of taking responsibility for themselves. In these circumstances they often aren't. So even if a woman isn't able to fully make informed choices she should be forced to continue a pregnancy? Who benefits from a drug addict carrying on with a pregnancy? Or a woman with MH issues who already has kids in care, living a chaotic lifestyle? I don't get it.

SimplySteveRedux · 31/05/2019 09:46

From my, male, perspective and having a child whom we were told could have very severe developmental difficulties abortion wasn't discussed, we just took it in our stride. DD has had three serious developmental issues, all requiring surgery.

If DP had wanted to abort, and we were only told about the potential issues at 34 weeks, I would have fully supported her.

Abortion is a valid option to any pregnant female and entirely their decision.

Many men are extremely blasé about abortion and see it as an "easy out", and callously don't have the emotional structure to acknowledge the physical and mental impact an abortion can have.

Passthecherrycoke · 31/05/2019 09:47

vdbfamily Those babies aren’t vulnerable or need protection, they’ll never be born so they don’t need anything?

Of course all of us know women who have early abortions for social reasons- that’s the whole point of abortions not for medical reasons isn’t it? I don’t think I even understand your point

Outofinspiration · 31/05/2019 09:47

At the request of medical professionals only.

So exactly like right now in this country then? Confused

Whitefishy · 31/05/2019 09:49

I am pro choice but in the true meaning of the word. On both sides of the coin, I support the woman’s choice. I am against forced pregnancy and that includes late term abortion if necessary.

But I also believe it is the woman’s choice to carry her baby to term no matter what the circumstances are. I think a lot of ‘pro-choice’ mumsnetters think that means trying to talk a woman in tricky circumstances into having a termination, when she’s already decided to keep the baby. I’ve seen that a lot in here.

I also read a study were they interviewed rape victims who have fallen pregnant through rape and several of them said they felt societal pressure to terminate the pregnancy and then regretted it afterwards. That to me is so wrong. We shouldn’t be putting any kind of pressure on anyone to terminate. Either direct or indirect.

I think being truly pro-choice should be exactly that. Supporting the decision of the woman fully. That includes not trying to encourage a teenager/rape victim/insolvent woman/single parent into terminating if that isn’t what she wants. It also includes supporting a women’s right to control over her own body. I think PPs are right and someone having a late term termination is unlikely to be doing it frivolously.

Bluestitch · 31/05/2019 09:50

These babies are the most vulnerable members of society and need some protection.

No, they are not born and not yet in society. You know who are actually very vulnerable? Pregnant women, and already born children. Pregnancy is a known trigger for DV, and can impact both physical and MH and even kill. And children who are already born deserve healthy mothers who have enough money to feed them.

Outofinspiration · 31/05/2019 09:51

These babies are the most vulnerable members of society and need some protection.

a) They are not 'babies' they are foetuses.

b) so could you please lay out the policies you would put in place alongside your forced birthing policy, to ensure that these 'most vulnerable members of society' get the help and 'protection' they need, once we are past the 'punishing women' stage ie. Once they are actually born?

PeachesAndMayo · 31/05/2019 09:54

I'm with Dogsaresomucheasier on this. I'll look after my body and not interfere with the decisions you make for yours. Abortion is never an easy option.

Lweji · 31/05/2019 09:57

I think a lot of ‘pro-choice’ mumsnetters think that means trying to talk a woman in tricky circumstances into having a termination, when she’s already decided to keep the baby. I’ve seen that a lot in here.

We must read very different threads.