Childless couples

[letsgohooray]

I came to the realisation that 90% of our family life involves or revolves around the dc. Either driving them somewhere or organising something for them or getting stuff for them etc. I genuinely want to know what childless couples do when they are not working? I want a breakdown!!! Weekday evenings and weekends. What do you do with your time? DO you spend it with your dp or away on activities? What do you talk about with each other. It is a whole world I can not imagine.

Baskerville, it wasn't only the parents of the problem children that said if they could go back in time they wouldn't have any.

Also if you don't believe people say that you should read some of the threads on here where plenty of posters say exactly that. Also there are quite a few websites and forums devoted to parents who regret their decision.

Just because you don't feel that way doesn't mean many do.

Personally I think it's better to regret not having a child (although I never have not even for 1 second) than regret having them

I think this thread has illustrated really clearly the variation in experiences, desires, feelings and wants of different women.

I know two different women. One had a baby and it completed her - as in, you could see the fulfilment and joy it brought her. She doesn't preach or lecture or hold herself up to be better than anyone else - she just adores being a Mum and it's lovely to see the bond that she has and the additional meaning it's brought to her.

The other also has a child and she's a great Mum, but quite cheerfully admits that she doesn't find it easy. The instinctiveness isn't there for her. She loves her son and she'd lay down her life for him, but she doesn't enjoy parenting and says that she feels she would have been just as happy - differently - if she'd not had him.

They are both lovely people, really careful and conscientious parents but two hugely different experiences.

mydogisthebest you really have had a deeply unfortunate life to have come in contact with what sounds like literally hundreds of miserable parents and grandparents. Hand on heart, I can say I know no one who has any relatives who have been in jail or had drug problems. Of course, people have partaken in recreational drugs in their youth but I know absolutely no one who has had the issues practically everyone you seem to know has had. I know people who have struggled with dc who have had disabilities and illness but I doubt you are talking of them. I also know no one who has said anything remotely like they regret having dc. Had I met the vast numbers of people that you have who not only have nothing but drugs, crime and terror involving their dcs but share the desperate fact with you that they regret having dc, I too would not have wanted dc. Fortunately for me, I haven't!! Please, find new friends and acquaintances. Being surrounded by such a huge and peculiar bunch of truly unfortunate people must affect your view on life!

Baskerville, it wasn't only the parents of the problem children that said if they could go back in time they wouldn't have any.

Also if you don't believe people say that you should read some of the threads on here where plenty of posters say exactly that. Also there are quite a few websites and forums devoted to parents who regret their decision.

Just because you don't feel that way doesn't mean many do.

I have no difficulty in believing that some people regret having children -- it comes up on threads on Mn with reasonable regularity, quite apart from anything else.

My incredulity is reserved for the fact that you seem surrounded by people whose children turn out to be drug addicts and criminals, and see this as a normal aspect of parenthood.

The other also has a child and she's a great Mum, but quite cheerfully admits that she doesn't find it easy. The instinctiveness isn't there for her. She loves her son and she'd lay down her life for him, but she doesn't enjoy parenting and says that she feels she would have been just as happy - differently - if she'd not had him.

I know this is one person you're talking about, but I think there is no correlation, in general, between how 'easy' or 'instinctive' you find parenting and acknowledging that you would have been happy without having a child.

Other than the early newborn stage, which was hellish for specific reasons, I've found parenting delightful so far, but because I had almost 41 years of very happy childfree life before we had DS, I'm also entirely aware that it's likely my life would have gone on being as meaningful and enjoyable as it had been beforehand.

I have one DC but have struggled with the loss of freedom, I don't want my life to be all about DC, I am really striving for balance and to retain the 'couple' relationship we had before and see the 'parent' one as a lovely, albeit sometimes stressful, addition.

I think if we set up society a bit better everyone could play a role in raising the next generation of adults and choosing to be a parent wouldn't feel like such an all consuming decision, likewise being without children wouldn't feel like living a totally different existence?! No need for judgement or defensiveness on either side

I know this is a strange opinion but I sort of agree with it. Not to say that everyone should be involved in parenting, but that everyone who wants to be part of a child’s life in a meaningful way should... and everyone that doesn’t have that instinctive (including their own parent) wouldn’t have to have that responsibility fully on their shoulders.

I think the children are raised by a villiage thing is what springs to mind. Society has changed and life has changed, and parenting has become a lot more difficult as a result. A lot of us parents have to give up a lot more of our individuality and freedom..

I enjoy hanging out with my childfree friends. Even though it does put pressure on me to make special arrangements for baby. But I do it because it reminds me that I’m more than just a mother. I’m an individual. I like to remember who I was before baby arrived. It’s healthy. It shouldn’t be something against the grain but it really is because of the amount of responsibilities parenting bring that overwhelms.

I like how before people crowded around kids and the child basically had gazillions parental love and attention. It doesn’t work in this day and age because there is no trust, there is no cooperation on a fundemtal level, too much cattiness and undermining of the other that mums don’t feel safe to trust others with their kids.

But really, I do think having my child was the best thing that has ever happened to me. I’ve always been an instinctive parent since a young age. I would go out of my way to spend time with other people’s kids and I always always longed for a child. So it was important to me and I feel very fulfilled.

But I do find parenting overwhelming at times. And I often reach out for my childfree friends to give me a mental break from thinking about kids.

I think they have a lot of beauty in their choice of life. I couldn’t take it because to me I would feel like my life is missing.. but my friend doesn’t. She is happy to be childfree but enjoys spending time with my child when he isn’t being overwhelming.

I love the life my friend has, I strive to maintain a balance and she is a great reminder for me to do that so I don’t lose my sense of self. I couldn’t choose that life, and she couldn’t choose mine as it doesn’t fulfill her.

I often ask her how she spends her weekend and time so I can try fit that me time and us time into my life too. Need inspiration.

Society is about plurality. Difference is celebrated. It makes us strong .

Im not envious of people who are childfree. But my brother is I thinks because he never felt like he wants to be a parent but he had felt pressured . Doesn’t apply to me. But doesn’t mean I don’t find a lot of lovely things about my childfree friends lifestyle.. I am a young mother that conceived after 3 years of meeting DH. Prior to that I was busy busy working working. I don’t think I had a great balance. Now I want that. And I do need a mental break from parenting so I remain balanced.

Just like those who are childfree without choice consider inconsiderate comments about them to be deeply cutting.

I consider comments about parents which has been directed at me by some childfree friends “what are you doing with your life?” “Why are you not making time for your friends and self?” “ you have changed, you used to be a lot more carefree and spontaneous”...

I find these deeply annoying.. it makes me feel like I failed at maintaining my identity... something that I strive for.. but realistically it’s not always easy when kids are so young

I enjoy hanging out with my childfree friends. Even though it does put pressure on me to make special arrangements for baby. But I do it because it reminds me that I’m more than just a mother. I’m an individual.

But wouldn't you have to find childcare no matter who you were going out with?

And honestly, probably more of my friends have children than don't at this point, but I don't think we tend to talk about them much when out -- the 'children' range from babies to grown thirtysomethings who live on the other side of the world, so it's not that there's a lot of common ground there, and I don't see evenings out with childfree friends as a separate thing ...

Not really because most of my friends with children make arrangements around child friendly things (which is why we hang out a lot as it’s easier and cheaper).

With my childfree friends I feel a bit selfish to make our arrangements revolve around my kids.

Well I’m still rather new to motherhood and kids are still pre school. I’m guessing it would be very different once in school.

Chill out, read, watch TV, look after the animals, work on the big project house (that we wouldn't have time or money to do if we had kids), see friends, go into town, plan little breaks away.....

We were together for ten years pre child.

We used to have weekends away with our dogs, camping and hiking.

Regularly cycle down to a secluded beach and have a BBQ, get drunk, smoke weed, listen to music

Have lots of lie ins. Morning sex, in fact, sex whenever we wanted!

We used to sometimes spend an entire weekend watching box sets in bed

We ate out a lot.

Basically we just did whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted. They were the days!

poopypants, not everyone I have met has been a miserable parent or grandparent. Even the ones who say they would not have children if they could go back are not miserable all the time. They enjoy life, they do enjoy their children but would choose not to have any given a second chance.

I don't see why that is so difficult to understand? You don't know what having a child is like until you have one do you? Then it is too late.

I had had quite a few dogs before I got a puppy. Rescue dogs that had problems and issues. I still was not prepared for the shock of having a puppy. It's hard work, very hard work at times. I love him to bits (he is 7 now) but I won't be getting another puppy only grown rescue dogs.

I am quite surprised you don't know of anyone within your family, extended family, friends, work colleagues etc that either has a family member that has been or is in prison or takes drugs.

DH's family are on the whole pretty law abiding but one of his uncles went to prison. He actually committed suicide in there so even more grief for his parents.

A neighbour's son where I used to live (a nice residential area in a pretty nice city) was a drug dealer. His picture mad the local papers. I had forgotten about him when I wrote my earlier posts but I bet he has caused his parents a lot of upset

It shouldn’t be something against the grain but it really is because of the amount of responsibilities parenting bring that overwhelms.

It’s not against the grain at all!

People treat parenting as a bigger deal than it is. It’s a relationship, not a job. There’s absolutely no reason why it should stop someone being his/her own person.

I know this is one person you're talking about, but I think there is no correlation, in general, between how 'easy' or 'instinctive' you find parenting and acknowledging that you would have been happy without having a child.

I agree. And in this particular friend's case, her son is lovely. He's late teens now and with the exception of some usual growing pains he's been a pretty easy-going lad so the difficulties she faced weren't related to him being a 'difficult' baby/child/tween/teen. What she struggled with was the feeling of being trapped and feeling like she was being limited and having lost her independence, because she was carrying the responsibility for another person's life and well-being and happiness. I'm not saying that having children traps women - these are the words she used (although she is far more articulate than I am).

mydogisthebest you are surprised I don't know anyone who has been to prison or has a serious drug problem??? Really? We must REALLY live in different communities. I'm shocked that you are shocked! I've known a few people who have got speeding tickets and the like but that is about it. The worst I know regarding dc would be young people drinking too much and throwing up somewhere unfortunate.... not even any teen pregnancies......One of us has a REALLY warped view and strange lifestyle. I assumed my life was not that unusual but perhaps it is!

I assumed my life was not that unusual but perhaps it is!

Not at all - I don't know a soul who's been to prison either!

This reminds me of the wedding thread where the OP's fiancé got into a scuffle. There were many incredulous people who couldn't believe that a punch-up wasn't part and parcel of a night out for many.

You have totally missed that lots of people choose not to have children because they don’t want them. Why would they want to be involved with raising other people’s children?
I don't think I have missed that point, what I think is that the divisive attitude of a lot of posts on here is unhelpful. I completely understand not wanting to have your own children, but I don't really understand the odd distaste about children that some child free people express. You were one!

MEGA LOLZ

I don't want my own children. I sure as hell don't want any part in raising your children!!!!
But you will want those children when they grow up to play a role in your society, won't you? So everyone should really take some ownership. Just opting out entirely is strange. And it's that sort of defensive attitude that I think doesn't help the understanding between those that choose to have them and those that don't, or empathy for those who wish they could but can't. I wish people could generally be more empathetic to each other and also realise that there are so many ways to have a fulfilled life, whether you get that because you were lucky enough to be able to choose your preference and it to work out for you, or have to work to find happiness against the odds.

I think a PP about contact with wider family taps into my thinking too, which is that if you don't have your own children it's quite nice to have some sort of interaction with children and the life that surrounds them as its another way to feel part of a community, just as engaging with elderly people and supporting them teaches you what to expect when you will be old yourself. And as I said before it makes more sense if those without, play a role to help those that do. In the past people did live in village communities and bringing up the children, working, looking after the elderly etc was shared amongst everyone. So women who were mothers weren't defined by this as they are now, it was just another part of their life

Anyway I'm waffling a bit now sorry. I just think it's a shame these conversations also turn defensive and judgemental of people who make a different choice.

I don't really understand the odd distaste about children that some child free people express. You were one

I really wasn’t. Can you quote where I said anything like that?

DH usually drags me out of bed around 9:20 on Sat/Sun mornings to walk to a local cafe for breakfast where we discuss our weekend plans, the upcoming week, stuff we’ve seen or read in the news, chat about work. Then we will kick around the house doing laundry and tidying, watching the F1 or rugby if it’s on. We might cook or order a takeaway, then watch a movie.

This sounds a lot like my life with DH...and w baby. Oh, but with a few Park/grand parents/farm/cousin's visits thrown in.

Omg you summarised my ideal world so beautifully Underthegreen

I love my dc to bits and am glad that I have them.
But from the outside I can see why dc might look a bit horrific, they are noisy, smelly, attention seeking missiles, who run through your cash, sleep and body.
So I wouldn't blame anyone for looking at them and thinking, ergh.

I really wasn’t. Can you quote where I said anything like that?
I'm sorry I didn't mean that aimed at you specifically, it was just your post prompted me to think about how I do know quite a few people without children who really do the whole eurgh children, can't bear to be anywhere near them etc. And whilst funnily enough I sort of get that (I used to feel the same in a lighthearted way haha) in all seriousness I don't think it helps community cohesion, and is unproductive when it leads to judgement between those with kids and those without. I think there's a sort of cult of Parenthood and lots of them are quite annoying to be fair! expecting to occupy all the public space, not disciplining their children and ultimately isolating non parents. I really see blame on both extremes, when really we are all just people and should try and all chill out, not see our choices as something unique and special.. some people have babies and some don't, we all have to live together!

IABUQueen genuinely glad I made sense, it's hard to explain what I mean. I have read the book Sapiens and it's really made me think about stuff in a different way!

OP, I’m in a sort of a limbo. I have a teen and I split up with her dad. And I moved town.
One of a sudden I found myself having free time!!!!
As in free free! No cooking/cleaning needed, no obligations, no responsabilities. For a whole weekend. Sometimes even a week!!!!
I had no idea what I wanted to do.
I got a partner and one of a sudden we can go to gigs and exhibitions, we can stroll into town for breakfast, we can have a weekend break. We can read the papers in bed with coffee and croissants, we can just go for a drink in town and stroll back. We can go to classes and for dinner. We can cook and chat, with a glass of wine, unhurried and then sit down and enjoy our meal without : please don’t play with food/throw it on the floor/spit it back on the plate etc.
It’s all a bit surreal. We can’t quite believe it 😂

I don’t know anyone who’s been to prison.

But you will want those children when they grow up to play a role in your society, won't you? So everyone should really take some ownership. Just opting out entirely is strange.

I do subscribe to the theory that it takes a village to raise a child. The problem with this though, is that the authority for raising children today is almost completely centred on the parents and the concept of family has shrunk. How many threads have you seen on here where people are carefully tip toeing around a rude child because they don't want to overstep, or because they know they will get a rude response from the parent if they try and sort it?

There are quite a few kids at my end of the street (very long road). I don't know names but I know their faces and which houses they live in. One was scooting recently and came off and grazed her knee. I was out working at the front of my house and saw what happened, went over and helped her up. I took her and her scooter back to her front door and waited until her Mum came out, explained what happened and left them to it.

All fine and quite usual round here, which is great. But that's not always the case. By contrast another neighbour opposite has grandkids who visit every weekend. Last year they were scooting and biking up and down past the houses and screaming - as in proper sounds like someone's being murdered screaming. One of my other neighbours asked them to stop making so much noise, and was told to fuck off (by the eldest, who is 10). Granddad came round later after they'd all gone home and apologised, but explained that their parents heard what happened (living room windows open and close to the front) and did nothing. And when he volunteered to go outside and tell them off, the parents told him that it wasn't his place to get involved with disciplining their son.

I had a similar experience - same lad had plonked his bike on my drive and was sitting pulling all the heads off my flowers and snapping the branches of some of my shrubs. I went out and told him to stop damaging my things and to move off my driveway. Again, told to fuck off. So I went over the road to his Granddad's house, to speak to his parents (they always visit as a family). Told the parents what was happening and what he said, and was told to mind my own business and not poke my nose in where their son was concerned as it was nothing to do with me!

So I think it's easy to say that we should all have a stake in raising the next generation, but how does that work in practice - when even teachers are being undermined by not being supported by parents in disciplining their students?! I don't know where the balance is and to be honest adults without children can feel like they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If I don't try and get involved then I am selfish, if I do try and get involved then I'm overstepping!