What age to start a sleep routine?

[Stillmonday]

My baby is 4 months old and we practise safe co sleeping. I've started taking him to bed about 8.30 and feed for a while then he will fall asleep around 9.30/10pm ish.
I know he should be going to sleep earlier but is there any point introducing a sleep routine now or waiting until he's a little older?

From day one home from hospital. Both slept well. I cope better with knowing what to do next & it's easier to work out if they might be hungry or tired.

Wow. What a bitchy thing to say.

Thank you GinUnicorn. Ditto. So glad MN isnt full of total cows. DS did 9-4 as a block last night, best he has ever managed.

I’ve found @Mississippilesslyposts honest and interesting

Yes, I agree! Fab about last night, so pleased. I always found that these good nights of sleep were a big breakthrough. Might not be so good the next night or the one after but before too long a decent chunk of sleep seems the norm...fingers crossed for you.

Yes we have found this - it's just encouraging to know they can! I dont expect 7-7 tonight! (Tho if that ever happens there is a bottle of Moet in the fridge!)

That’s great news! Mine sometimes sleeps 6-630 but can be relied upon to have a bad night if I have an important meeting ha ha

@Mississippilessly - wishing you well with the sleep consultant... must be so difficult having troubled sleep. I've found your comments really interesting and helpful 💐

@Mississippilessly we have had a bath, story, bed routine in own cot since ds was 6 months old.. He is 14 months now and he still does not sleep through the night. He is in his own cot. He is now night weaned. He eats well. He has a good 2 hour nap during the day. His room stays dark and exactly the same every night. But apart from 3 nights a week ago he doesn't sleep through the night. He has got better (except for last night which was a disaster!) he goes down easily at 730 but he is then up around 2 and 6 on a good day.. Last night was every 2 hours. But I don't see how we could have done any better routine. Just his personality.

@Smurf123 we had the same. She sometimes sleeps through now and it’s getting better and better.

@Smurf123 gosh you're doing so well. Broken sleep is so tough.
They will all get there. If they could get there faster
...!

@GinUnicorn @Smurf123 mine is 18 months now no form of routine would work to help his sleep the Midwifes and HV said he was an "anomaly" . We tried everything bar controlled crying - just can't do it. As a newborn he slept for 20 mins then was awake for 2 hours - as time has moved on (he is 18 month now) we have never had a solid night of sleep. The best I can get is him up every 2 hours the worst ............ I cannot even describe. However he is a lovely boy and seems to simply not need sleep when he is awake he doesn't cry just wants to be in on the action - wait till he realises Mummy and Daddy are super boring . We do bath, book and white noise so he has a consistent routine- it's just that put simply some nights are better than others.

How do you get a baby to sleep without rocking or feeding if they can't seem to manage to fall asleep by themselves? I would love to know this magic remedy, if it doesn't involve leaving them to cry. I've tried leaving DS (6 months) completely alone, sitting beside him in silence, holding his hand, rubbing his chest, singing to him...nothing has worked. If the only alternative is leaving him to cry then I'd rather keep on keeping on. If there's a sensible alternative then I'd love to hear it.

Same question for night waking. We can see from the monitor that he does sometimes stir and resettle himself, which is great - we aren't rushing in at the slightest peep. But he also wakes regularly and cries as he can't fall back to sleep. What do we do?

@LaDameAuxLicornes Oh, it's so tough. We held DD's dummy in and stroked her nose while saying "night night DD" softly which would help her go over. At first we did it until she was asleep, then we started stopping earlier and earlier over the course of weeks and just leaving the room saying "night night DD". Eventually we just had to put her in her cot and she'd mostly go over by herself. Didn't work for naps though, she needed bounced until she was almost 1.

For night wakings we only go in if she's standing up as that's her "I'm properly awake" signal. If she's crying while lying down or sitting up she wants to go back to sleep and will only get more upset if we go in. When she was 6 months she just needed her dummy put back in.

I would say off the cuff and based on mine and my friend’s babies that most can’t self settle without ‘something’ till they are much older. So a dummy, boob, muslin, the thumb whatever. My friend who had a thumb sucker had the best sleeping baby. Ever. But he’s 7 and still sucks his thumb and his thumb is ruined as are his teeth. DS1 had a dummy and DS2 has a muslin cloth that he rubs on his head.

That's very cute! (The muslin. Not the ruined thumb!)

We’re now in a good routine at 9 weeks and my baby is sleeping through (although this is likely to be luck rather than routine). My little one was getting upset at colicky being up so it suited her to be asleep and in the dark by 8. We have a nap in the late afternoon and as soon as she wakes (between 6.30 and 7) we start bath, massage and then feed. We then put her down drowsy with white noise and she puts herself to sleep.

Can I ask: the mums saying their babies sleep through... do you literally mean 7pm -7am or similar? And do you BF or FF?

My DS is nearly 4 months and I thought he was doing brilliant with a 2am feed and a 5am feed 😯

He is! It's very very rare for 4 month olds to go through the night, not expected at all.
Comparison is the thief of joy!
Also - always remember - I would estimate at least 50% of MN posts are made up!!

@Mississippilessly hahaha ! That's such a good point. I know so many mums get hardly any sleep I thought my two wake ups were amazing 😂. The only thing I find is DS wants to feed for ages! He literally has a 35 minute feed twice in the night so it ends up being me being awake two hours by the time I get back off. But I'm not complaining!

I think we all cope amazingly with sleep deprivation- it’s tough!

One friend said her son slept through- he fed at 10 and 3.
Other one said he slept through: they had to wake up 5/6 times to replace the dummy but he ‘slept through’.
I think 6 hours at a stretch at this age is decent.

DS2 is an excellent sleeper but even then every so often at 2/3/4 he will need tucking in, pat on the back, whatever else. Or even the toilet (he’s potty trained but wears a nappy at night but won’t wee in it!).

redbedheadd My 9 week old is doing 8-6. My first was the same. I’ve been exceptionally lucky. I think they both found their fingers early (which means a whole world of orthodontic costs later...) and were formula fed which anecdotally seems to make a difference even if officially the research says it doesn’t. With my first we broke the feed to sleep early as teeth came early and we had to start brushing. That was total luck but I think that helped. I know it could all go to pot with my second but touch wood she carries on as she is.

Yeah I had heard FF babies sleep better - something about it taking more energy to process - is that factual or nonsense? 😂

Sorry @redbedheadd I'd say nonsense mine was FF and a friend who also had a non sleeper was FF. Those who I have spoken to at baby groups/hospital etc say the same it's just down to the baby which makes sense as they are all little individuals(who can't be reasoned with or bribed to sleep !).

Ill be glad if it's not true as I BF !

Without wanting to piss on the PP's chips, I'd say quite a lot of babies, BF or FF seem to sleep through before 4 months and then when the 4 month regression hits it's back to several wake ups a night At least both of my two have done this.

After that - if you BF mostly on demand and don't put any conscious effort into trying to get them to sleep independently the vast majority of babies will continue to wake in the night throughout the first year and it will tend to go back and forth without much actual improvement. It's normal and doesn't mean you are doing something wrong. Co-sleeping is a good way to deal with it if you'd rather wait for it to sort itself out. Just be sensible about it which includes not getting complacent about things like alcohol, bedding, and your own clothing having long ties or cords.

If you formula feed, or breastfeed in a bottle-like pattern (have set feeds, even if they are not at specific times, don't feed for comfort or boredom in between) or feed in a set routine, many babies will start naturally sleeping longer and longer chunks.

Likewise, if you do want to do something about sleep and you follow the kinds of tips you get in various sleep books, on websites etc, most babies will respond well to this (that's why most of the advice is broadly the same, the details many insist are the key are really unimportant) and will start lengthening their sleep chunks. There's "sleep training" advice with and without the whole controlled crying thing, so you can choose something which feels right for you. The common theme is routine so that a baby knows what to expect and feels comforted by familiarity, making change incrementally so that a baby feels safe and secure, and differentation so making day clearly opposite from night, plus making sure the period immediately before night is soothing and calming. You can do this in addition to feeding mostly on demand if you're consistent with feed-sleep associations for both night and day sleep, so it's not the case that breastfeeding on demand automatically = broken sleep.

But there are still some formula fed babies, routine parented babies, and a small amount of sleep trained babies who will consistently stick to the disrupted sleep patterns of the first year common in breastfed on demand infants. Sometimes it just happens that way, again, it's not a sign that something is wrong. This is physiologically normal infant sleep. If you get one that sleeps better than normal in response to the kinds of interventions mentioned, it's partly down to luck.

All babies (children) eventually get to a point where they don't need you at night, even if their need for night time parenting is so strong they resist all efforts at changing this.