What age to start a sleep routine?

[Stillmonday]

My baby is 4 months old and we practise safe co sleeping. I've started taking him to bed about 8.30 and feed for a while then he will fall asleep around 9.30/10pm ish.
I know he should be going to sleep earlier but is there any point introducing a sleep routine now or waiting until he's a little older?

My DS is six months old and we also co-sleep. I’ve had to start taking him to bed around 9pm because he won’t sleep downstairs in the evening anymore.

Mississippi I am glad that you are getting assistance and I hope it all works out well for you which I’m sure it will. You seem to be sensitive about the issue and getting into routine when you’re a new mum isn’t always easy but it’s more straightforward than you suggest if you appreciate the potential difficulties caused by settling babies with you downstairs or going to bed with them. If this is not sustainable and for most it is not due to work other children other commitments or because they choose to establish sleep they should be alive to the issues it can cause. You yourself have said you have had to miss out on baby stuff and you have now hired a sleep consultant. If I was asked I would tell any new parent to consider how these decisions may impact sleep quality they and their baby get. I personally do not care whether people cosleep with baby rock or feed to sleep (although I never would). However when they get sensitive or angry and sleep deprived they should make changes that suit them instead of taking out their feelings on those of us who chose to establish a pattern and maintain it for our own sanity. I have very clear views on this. I have a number of friends with young children and the amount of sleep issues they have is astounding and they have never established a routine. They are often going and lying beside their babies and children for hours at a time while someone else does the ironing. You can say what you want but I am flabbergasted. My husband also worked nights 7 days a week so bedtime was down to me and me only and there is no way it would have been physically possible for me to have done this nor would i. It would have been a full time job!!!

Depends on the baby. DD was awful sleeper for first 2 months, but good sleeper by 5 months. DS better start but still had one random night feed up to 12 months.

Try not to create routines that require you to jump through hoops every night. Instead try things out, e.g. dim lights, calm time, and take cues from your child.

I dont really know what else to say to you. I'm sort of sick of you telling me its straightforward when for us it hasn't been.
I'm out. Thank you hopefulhalf for your encouragement, hopefully you are right!

How does he fall asleep? If he’s night weaned then he’s not falling asleep on the boob? I guess it’s not just routine but it’s also breaking it down into steps:

• how do they fall asleep?
• when they wake up what resettles them?
• how much milk are they having in the day time? (And food)

DS1 was not an amazing sleeper despite the routine. What the routine has done though is that over time when his sleep improved it meant that we never ever had a battle over sleep. He would go upstairs without a fuss, lie in bed, read and put himself to sleep. I have to do absolutely nothing except for a quick cuddle and snuggle. So the routine is a much longer investment.

@Mississippilessly

I totally agree you can have a great sleep routine but every baby is different and they learn skills at different rates. It’s a shame some smug people can’t appreciate this.

I have one who has been a bad sleeper. I did everything right and she still didn’t sleep through and although she does more now she isn’t 100% reliable.

My friend has 4 children and had 3 wonderful sleepers and her 17 month old has never slept through despite having the same routine.

All people are different and all babies are different. We all find our way and it doesn’t reflect badly.

My 4 month old has had a routine from very early on and still doesn't sleep for much more than an hour at a time at night
We were getting 6 hour stretches from about 6 weeks old and then it all went to pot at around 3 months and has been the same since. She can self settle and isn't fed or rocked to sleep she just doesn't stay asleep for very long before waking up and crying.

Thanks GinUnicorn. LucyLou123 I hope things improve. Ours have slowly, we are getting 4/5/6 hour stretches but o more - but that's a big improvement and we have been where you are. Good luck x

I personally think the advice that a baby should be in the same room with you at all times is responsible for a far worse and insidious health problem - the establishment of poor sleep habits in kids. Because poor sleep equals poor brain development and a tendency to use food to compensate for tiredness, leading to obesity. Also, parents need space from babies in the evenings. To rejuvenate, gain some mental energy.

Having a three week old baby in your room and in your lounge at all times, fine. Having a three month old next to you in your room and in your lounge at all times, a bad health decision for the baby and the parents.

Such a depressing view @Kiwiinkits
I'm more concerned about the safety of my baby than having a good nights sleep!

We did a bedtime routine from about 6 weeks - bath, sleeping bag, bottle, bed. It happened at different times every night depending on when she'd napped but gradually it got earlier and earlier and eventually settled into a regular 6pm start. She still can't stay up any later at 15 months! I found the routine very comforting but didn't stress out about timings at all and she pretty much settled herself into her routines every time without me having to try. I reckon she was in a proper routine at about 4 months and she stopped night time wake ups at about 5 months.

I had severe PND and my mental health team agreed with @kiwi. The safe sleeping guidelines are great but they don't take into account anything other than the safety of the baby. If your mental health is at risk sometimes you have to find a compromise. For me it was moving my baby to her own room at 4 months so I could finally start getting some sleep (she had grunting baby syndrome so was a very noisy sleeper). That was the right balance for me as the SIDs risk drops dramatically at 4 months. The mental health time wanted me to move her much earlier but I wasn't comfortable with the level of risk.

Just weighing up different risks, costs and benefits StillMonday. Rational rather than dismal I hope. Long term creeping risks can be more significant than catastrophic short term risks...

Must be just me that thoroughly enjoys every moment with my baby, he won't be this little for long so I'm in no rush to put him in his own room, risks or no risks!

My goodness @Stillmonday you are sounding extremely judgemental. Clearly you love your child more than all other posters and are a much better parent. I'm shocked that you can't understand the mental strains that many parents feel following the birth of a child. Just because people want to use a routine early on or have 5 minutes away from their child, does NOT mean they don't love their babies or don't 'love every moment with their baby'. I was like you in the beginning - having him with me every second of every day, until I realised I was drowning. I needed some 'me' time back (how selfish of me). As soon as we started a routine, putting down in own cot, going out for a coffee for an hour etc, I felt like a new person. I'm a SAHM and spend plenty of time with my children. I don't need to bed-share/sling-wear/attachment parent to prove how much I love being with my children. We all have different stress levels, home environments, family history, mental health concerns, patience levels etc and should do what works for us as a family, whilst remaining as safe as possible.

I agree and a baby is not unsafe in its own cot. Cosleeping is seen as better? Really?

I'm more concerned about the safety of my baby than having a good nights sleep!

Has it occurred to you that severe sleep deprivation has its own risks, like falling asleep on a sofa with a baby or slower response times behind the wheel of a car? Sleep deprived driving can be as dangerous as drink driving.

I'd start it now..

www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2018/10/14382/

There has been a rise in suffocation/strangulation deaths associated with bed-sharing in the UK and comparable countries. It's not 100% clear why more parents are bed-sharing, but having your baby in the same room as you 24/7 (so that you rush over and intervene at every peep, meaning they never get a chance to learn to self-settle) is known to raise the odds of having a terrible sleeper--meaning that parents wind up bed-sharing because it is literally the only way anyone will get any sleep.

I followed most SIDS guidelines (EBF, not smoking, back-sleeping, safe empty cot etc. etc.) but I draw the line at things that are going to result in a baby waking up every hour (like having a baby cat-nap in the living room with no bedtime routine), because I've seen way too many of my friends end up collapsing into bed with their babies due to exhaustion and I'm concerned about safety aspects. In the real world, safety is a complicated thing--there is no point rigidly obeying every safety "rule" to the letter if it inadvertently increases other risks.

Never leaving my DD alone to sleep was one of the (several) things that I was adamant about before she arrived and then changed my mind pretty quickly!

I don't feel comfortable with her in another room yet, but I do put her to bed at 8 and then come downstairs for 2-2.5 hours. I was going to bed with her at 10 previously, but her bedtime has naturally crept forward as she gets tired now about 7.30 and I don't really want to be sitting up in there in dark room for three hours and barely see my DP (or the pair of us sitting up there in silence!). It's amazing how much a couple of hours of 'me' time makes a day, and she's so far been a fantastic sleeper (although we are approaching four months!) It's all about working out what your level of comfort is and what works for you. It's an individual thing, I think.

Sleep deprivation is horrible and I am not a good parent or nice person or no sleep. I'm generally quite a crunchy, attachment parent type, but not when it comes to sleep.

I agree kokeshi

By 2-4 months it's good to start moving towards a routine. I think it's important to be relaxed and know that you might take one step forward and two steps back at points, though.

Mostly that's just about separating night and day times. You might find that baby drops night feeds, and then needs them again. That kind of thing.

I'm glad you asked me that @Kokeshi123
Bed sharing for me is far far safer than if he was in his own cot.
He has his own space in my bed and there's a bed guard on his side. He sleeps on his back with no pillows anywhere near him.
I don't move when I'm alseep but even if I did roll over then I still wouldn't though him.
When he need a night feed I love myself around him so if I do doze off then he's still safe.
I get enough sleep that way and we both wake up refreshed and I never feel the need to nap in the day.
However if he was in own cot then whenever he needed a feed I'd have to haul him to me, prop myself up and then IF I dozed off it would be far more dangerous as he would be around pillows! Also I wouldn't get as much sleep.

I'm 100% confident in my choices. After trying for this baby for 20 years and numerous ivf attempts, there's not a single chance of me putting him in any danger.

Also, and equally as important.. we both love bed sharing ☺️

When did I say I didn't understand mental health issues @Kennebunkport ? I clearly wrote that in my non sleep deprived state 🙄
Who's judgemental?!

It is totally up to you. They don't "need" a routine. I started putting DS1 to bed before us in the evenings when he started crawling (8 months), because otherwise I'd spend my evenings chasing after him which sort of defeated the point.

DS2 was clearly bothered by light and sound in the living room during the evening from about 3 months so we started putting him to bed on his own then. They are all different and IME you'll know when it feels right.

I get annoyed by the whole narrative about sleep TBH, hate all the insistence on routines and "training", fine to give advice if that's what somebody wants/has asked for but it's a choice, not a necessity. The biological norm (ie what happens if you do nothing) is that they don't sleep through or independently until they're about two years old. Honestly, if you don't like the sound of that, that's absolutely fine and understandable, but some of us prefer to manage it by co-sleeping instead and that's fine too. (And some babies don't respond to routines and sleep training, so their parents should be reassured that it's not something they are doing wrong, either.)

There is not very good evidence for the being in the same room for all sleeps thing. It might have a slight protective effect, but it seems to be the most important for the long stretch of night time sleep. The UK is the only country to include it in advice from anywhere; it isn't even part of NHS advice, only Lullaby Trust. Personally I'd probably disregard it even for that sleep by 4 months though as the overall risk of SIDS has dropped. Although as said, I prefer to bedshare as I find it gets me and DS2 the most sleep and fits with my overall approach.