What age to start a sleep routine?

[Stillmonday]

My baby is 4 months old and we practise safe co sleeping. I've started taking him to bed about 8.30 and feed for a while then he will fall asleep around 9.30/10pm ish.
I know he should be going to sleep earlier but is there any point introducing a sleep routine now or waiting until he's a little older?

From the start, really! Even at the hospital (first five nights, I am outside the UK), I did a sort of bedtime routine in the evening and turned the lights right down. Can't really imagine having a baby kipping in the living room--do people really do this? Ours slept in the bedroom from the start (although we are in a flat, so same floor. If we had had an upstairs, I might have found an in-between solution, like establishing an evening sleeping spot in a quiet place on the first floor).

Feed, nappy, bed at 8-8.30 at 2 months, more or less, when he started to sleep long (all evening until we went to bed ourselves). Never slept in the living room with us as light and noise are hardly conducive to a good sleep. Bed time was his own choice (his sister was an hour later).

Now at 4-5 months, sleeps all night until 8. As he sometimes gets disturbed by my husband getting up early, I think we'll put him in his room.

Hm.
It's tough because now you are encouraged to develop their circadian rhythms etc but yes you are told not to leave them - so you either have them sleeping downstairs with you or you go to bed with them. It's really really hard.

I wonder if there is a correlation between this and PND rates?

From birth (or coming home) for both. All at a rough time to start with. Half an hour after the 6/6:30 feed, dim the lights, run a warm bath. Oil massage. Five minutes in the bath, wrapped up in a warm towel, back to a dark room, changed, fed (I breastfed both), read the same short book every night (Goodnight Moon) and down to sleep. DS1 co slept and DS2 didn’t. By 6 weeks they both knew day from night firmly. Between roughly 7:30 pm and 6:30 am all feeds and changing in a dark quiet room. Either DH or I would stay there. Yes it was a tad boring but having a good routine set was so worth it. So even when they woke for feeds at night I would feed in the dark room and settle (or DH would settle). I also got better quality sleep as a result. They still have a modified version of the same routine seven years later, Bath, teeth, story and bed. Both are good sleepers and we have no bed time tantrums.

So we have had a very similar routine but it took a while for bedtime to settle at a set time.
He is still a shit sleeper!

How old is your LO Missi ? and in what way is he a "shit" sleeper ?

Mississippi I do think that if babies are not put into some sort of routine they will generally have difficulty sleeping and when mothers wonder why it usually has something to do with them. I am really shocked by the number of people on this thread, friends, colleaugues at work etc who have children up to aged 2 and 3 years old who don’t sleep and sleep consultants are being considered. And when they go on to explain the sleeping arrangements I am flabbergasted. I say this because everyone needs sleep to function and sleep deprivation is horrendous. In the first few weeks establishing bf you can be up every half hour hour in the night. Theres no need for that to be the case after a few weeks and after a few years... when parents are asked the “routine” of co sleeping, rocking or feeding to sleep and this is at up to 2 years old and they wonder why it’s happening. When they have finally snapped it’s not really surprising. I am a medical professional and I have had 4 children. None of whom were left to cry. Don’t know what sleep training is or controlled crying is and I don’t care either. Some of these threads are utter nonsense. Sleeping children is common sense and perseverance from the start. Sure there can be a few bumps along the way ... but some of the issues are brought on by the parents themselves. The answer of you must have had an easy baby? Ehm no just some common sense . We all need sleep. Agree with hopefulhalf

We started introducing a bedtime routine at 8 weeks and moved him into his nursery at night at 6 months but every baby is different. Just do what works best for you guys and ignore any judgement!

As for any day time routines, I honestly don't really know when they started. Things just kind of fell into place over time. The only thing that isn't routine in our house is breastfeeding- it's still very much an on demand thing, just how we like it.

Enjoy your baby op

All in saying is a routine doesnt guarantee anything.
I know this because DS has been in one since pretty early and still wakes lots of times a night. So go ahead and be flabbergasted.

Are you resentful of that Missi ? How old is your DS ?

DD is 13 weeks and we've just started a loose routine the last three or four weeks. It's generally just nappy change, massage, book, into sleeping bag and breastfeed and then down in her cot. She goes down at 8ish and is asleep by 8.30 and sleeps anywhere from 6-9 hours in one stretch usually, wakes for a feed and then back down again for 2-3.

I was going to bed with her but the last few days I have spent a couple of hours downstairs instead before going to bed myself. I know that's not strictly adhering to SIDs guidelines, but we have an Owlet and video monitor so I'm comfortable enough and getting those two hours to myself and not sitting in a dark bedroom trying not to make noise has been a real boost!

No - he's a baby and he's doing what he needs to do. We are slowly working on it and are seeing gradual improvements, I've night weaned him which has helped and in the last month he has started settling for his dad so that has really helped. Do I wish the last 8 months had been different? That I hadn't spent every day trying to get his naps and sleep right? Yes I do. Because it hasn't made much difference and I have had to miss out on a lot of baby stuff because I just couldn't make it work. But according to some this is because I was doing it wrong. So that's great to hear.
I just find the suggestion that all babies who dont sleep well dont because of what their mothers have done a bit ridiculous. If it was that straightforward everyone would have good sleeping babies. No one wants a lack of sleep.

He is 8 months

Btw I do agree with do what works best for you but if you are still sleep deprived and considering a sleep consultant when your “baby” is say 3 months - 3 years you’re still rocking them feeding them to sleep cosleeping then maybe don’t question where it has gone wrong. Baby’s don’t just decide things for themselves. There is a bit of parental guidance involved.

DD2 is 8 weeks and we have a bedtime routine and she goes to bed in her next to me crib at about 7.30. It's been made easier by the fact that DD1 is 4 and is in bed by the same time.

He isnt rocked or fed to sleep thanks.

I think it's important to understand that while things like bedtime routines reduce the risk of having a terrible sleeper, it is definitely possible to do all the "right" things and still have a child who sleeps very badly!

I'm sorry you have found it stressfull Missi. Is he settling in the evening then waking multiple times a night or not settling in the evening or a bit of both ?
How are his daytime naps ?
How is his diet ?

Exactly. That's all I'm trying to say!
I'm hoping that as we have done a routine for so long he will now settle better now he seems a bit more ready to.
It's a bloody good job he is cute...!

Diet is good, eats 3 solid meals a day and is BF as well. He settles in his cot.
Clearly I have failed according to some - we have now hired a sleep consultant who is being really helpful and keeping me sane.

So it sounds like you have a solid basis to work on. The range of "normal" to sleep a solid 8-9 hours is something like 6weeks to 17 months, with a clustering around a mean of 4-6 months. If babies are given sufficient opportunity it is to some extent a developmental milestone, like walking or toliet training in that it is partially hormonally determined.

There's no way my baby at 9/12 weeks or even now would go 10 hours sleep at night. He's exclusively breastfed and my milk supply would be affected if he slept that long without feeding at such a young age.
Anyway going back to my original point, I'm going to gently start a rough routine now and encourage more from 6 months when I start weaning him.

I’m interested in this subject because I followed the current advice about breastfeeding, staying in the room with them, room temperature, responding to every squeak, etc with my DD and, a year in, was left wondering why she was more wakeful at night than when she was 3 months old!

She’s 15 months now and loves her sleep; her problem is that she can’t self settle at all and I can see quite clearly that she is desperate to. So when she wakes, she becomes distressed and cross because she can’t just snuggle back down and get herself back to sleep, even though she tries to - instead she has to be hauled out of her comfy cot and breastfed. We’re told that teaching babies to “self soothe” is tantamount to some kind of neglect, but I can see now with my own child that I have actually done her a bit of a disservice by not helping her to learn this just like I’ve helped her to learn to eat, walk, talk, and all the other stuff she needs to do to have a happy little life!

I think my opinion on the idea that it’s wrong to gently encourage babies to sleep well as they get older has changed after seeing how it has affected my own baby.

Why are you using a sleep consultant if he settles in his cot and you aren’t having to rock feed or co-sleep? What’s the issue?

The issue is he still wakes multiple times a night and I need some sleep. Because contrary to your sweeping statements like 'it's the mothers fault' sleep isnt always straightforward.