What age to start a sleep routine?

[Stillmonday]

My baby is 4 months old and we practise safe co sleeping. I've started taking him to bed about 8.30 and feed for a while then he will fall asleep around 9.30/10pm ish.
I know he should be going to sleep earlier but is there any point introducing a sleep routine now or waiting until he's a little older?

I find the simplest way to get into good sleep habits is to have a really dark sleep space.
So at night, black out blinds. But also for day time sleeps.

OP you might enjoy the book Sweet Sleep :)

@Stillmonday you clearly stated that it must be only you that enjoys spending every moment with their baby. This came across as smug and belittling to those who struggle to spend 'every moment' with their baby. This shows you don't understand mental health issues that many mums face. I'm glad you don't have these problems, but don't assume people want time away from the children. For many it is necessity.

@Kennebunkport My statement doesn't state anything like you've just quoted! Be real! 🙄

For the first time in months, I have dared to comment on baby sleep thread.
Usually, I am a voice in the wilderness and am roundly turned on in threads like this one. However, I sense a couple of kindred spirits here, and so here goes...
I think if someone had set out to design a way to make sure most babies were terrible sleepers, they could not have come up with a better system than the advice given to new mums at the moment.
Napping on someone, feeding to sleep, jumping at every squeak, sleeping in the lounge in the evening, sleeping in one room - it's all ridiculous and I agree with a pp, I would like to see figures on PND and how they stack up since these recommendations were made.
The problem is, it is impossible to have a sensible debate about it, because any questioning is met with responses such as some on here, sanctimonious about safety and how much they love their baby.
As a pp said, we are the parents, and we and as such, need to teach our children skills. To proclaim - as often is on MN - that you are completely baby-led is madness.
And one thinv before I get back into my box. Why is putting a baby down in its own room tantamount to neglect because IT IS AGAINST THE GUUDELINES, yet co-sleeping, which is, also against the guidelines, trotted out as a Good Thing all the time?
Just my opinions, others are, available

Thankfully I'm recovered enough from my PND to just laugh when people spout such rubbish but just in case anyone else read that judgemental post from the OP and is feeling bad: not wanting to spend every minute with your baby doesn't mean you don't love them just as much as every other mother in the world, nobody enjoys every second of parenting even if they claim they do, and you don't have to sacrifice everything else in your life - your mental health, your relationship, your sense of self - in order to be a good mum.

Cathf - I’m the same. Hated on the sleep threads. Lol

Well thank goodness we aren't all the same. People have different parenting styles, that's no bad thing so long as we are all happy in our own lives surely!

cathf Completely agree 👍

Someone said upthread about how their 6 month old no longer falls asleep with them downstairs and they seemed surprised by that! Of course a 6 month won't nod off like a newborn and at 6 months need to be upstairs on their own getting a good nights sleep, in their own room IMO.

But I'm sure some on here would say that's awful and obviously I cant possible have loved my babies to do that to them...

Mine were sleeping solid portions of the night - say about six hours- from about six weeks old. You “train” them from birth - obvious things like keeping the room dark, not chatting to them too much, not making being awake too interesting, etc, even when they’re waking up to feed.

Mine too, Daisy, although I am regularly told that I have been lucky with all of my babies.
All of mine were put in a dark room by themselves at night from birth. They were downstairs with us during the day and napped downstairs in the light and noise during the day, but night is for sleeping and babies need to be taught that.
Deeply unfashionable but what do we know?

Clearly. Obviously if someone is keeping things light etc a baby cant be expected to settle.
But instilling a good routine, while hopefully helping long term, doesnt always guarantee a good sleeper. that's why I take issue with the 'if you want sleep you do a routine'. Doesnt always work like that.

There's no set answer but just try to avoid having an 18 month old still being coaxed to go to sleep at midnight each day (and didn't nap) though to be fair, a year later we received her autism diagnosis.

Ps we did all of the routine things it just didn't work, every child is different, and mine likes to sleep midnight til 8, still does 20 years on, and yes school schedules were a nightmare too. They say autism causes rigidity in schedules, yes it does!

I agree Mississipi that some babies are bad sleepers and will be whatever you try.
However, I think that a good three quarters of the problems on the sleep board could be solved by a sensible and firm routine.
Do parents never question the wisdom of a baby sleeping downstairs with the TV and lights on? Surely it is obvious that everyone sleeps better in a quiet and dark room?

From day 1. Baby always in his own room. Repeated the routine every night and by two-three months he was well into it. Bath, read, nurse, down to bed awake then lights off. Then a few hours later before I went to bed I’d pick him up half asleep and nurse him again. Then fingers crossed he’d sleep til 5.30 (he’s 15 now and still an early riser).
My daughter same thing. She was fussier had reflux but at three months it clicked and no problem after that. Consistency is key. But start ASAP.

Christ almighty...this thread took a turn. Seems pretty clear to me that the OPs comments re. wanting to spend time with her baby was from a place of feeling defensive, some of you were clearly on the attack from the get go. So just so everyone knows, I don't care how anyone else chooses to organise their children's bedtimes...different things work for different parents and babies.

So, OP. Didn't do much of a routine for aaages. For the first 10 months DS slept on my lap in front of the telly from about 7 and then we just carried him up when we went up to bed and resettled and co slept. From around 6-7 months we did a daily bath and started to periodically try to settle him on his own but it just never worked at all. From 10 months he suddenly stopped settling in the light and noise downstairs and we tried again to settle him upstairs and it worked. I'd feed to sleep on our bed and then roll over and leave him. He did wake up a couple of times an evening and it was hard. Got him his own toddler bed soon after and that's when we started doing bath, pyjamas, story etc. At 14 months I stopped bf cold turkey and after the briefest of cries he was fine and from then has gone off to sleep very happily with me sat by him. He now only usually wakes once in the night and has slept through on a couple of occasions. He does come into bed with us in the night but I think that's inevitable as, like so many people all over the world, we all share a bedroom through necessity.

So I wouldn't worry at all. I did everything 'wrong,' co sleeping, feeding to sleep but it was ok in the end. It took DS a week, at most, to get the hang of the new routine, they pick things up so quickly, and now he knows that means bed. In fact, he actually asks to go to bed these days and seems to love it.

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do things but I do think it's natural for your baby to want to be near you, and whilst I longed for time alone sometimes, we did get there in the end! They usually do, given how many countries do things differently to us, we can't say that a routine is the best way to do things!

Stillmonday I think the point is that those that have babies who don’t sleep are not happy and post on sleep threads for advice which they don’t really want because it isn’t what they want to hear

I find it amazing that you think co-sleeping is less of a risk than baby sleeping alone. It isn't!

I also found your statement 'If my baby slept through the night it would be detrimental to my milk supply...' (or thereabouts) unbelievable!
You have very interesting priorities.

Aquilla

I always felt more relaxed when DS was right next to me...that's a perfectly normal feeling imo, very natural. Whether it's accurate or not is another thing, however it is perfectly possible to practice safe co sleeping and as current guidelines say not to leave your baby alone while sleeping for 6 months I don't see how it's surprising the OP feels like that. Also, why is it odd that she wants to maintain milk supply?

Cathf I think they do but the problem is we are told to do that! When I went against it I had such such doubt in my mind but DS just couldn't sleep. Unfortunately for me it turns out he cant sleep anywhere! Tye advice from my HV was literally let him di what he likes for 6 months and then do CIO. Its baffling.

Interesting timing. I've just gone on Facebook. The first thing on my thread was an article extolling the virtues of baby sleeping on mum. Bonding, mum gets to recover from birth etc etc. Result - guilt because I wanted my DS to sleep in a cot! The literal next thing was another article about 'solving baby sleep' and how 'in 3 easy steps out can get your baby to sleep through the night in their cot'so everyone is happy and peaceful. Result- I feel like a failure because I have tried to do this to no avail!

CopperandTod as another poster said upthread, a little keeps smugness and a but more of an ability to see outside your own experience would make things much nicer. Like loads of other posters who have shown much empathy and understanding of each other.

StillMonday actually yes you did come across badly. The whole 'I love my baby' thing does imply those who didnt do as you do don't. It's not a great approach is it?

With regards to the milk supply issue, I am EBF and my baby sleeps 'through' (can be anywhere from 7-10 hours) and has since about seven weeks. It hasn't affected my milk supply, but if I do wake up engorged and she's still asleep I just pump a little off for comfort and go back to sleep! I think it's a myth really that BF babies can't/shouldn't sleep through like FF babies do. I think my DD just makes up for it during the day

Yes I have night weaned DS and my milk supply is fine.

Nothing wrong with different parenting styles at all but you can't say things like "must just be me who treasures every moment" etc without expecting people to get a bit annoyed. There will be women reading this who feel like bad mums because they want some time for themselves; comments like that can be really upsetting.

Am I setting myself up for issues in the future with this "routine"?

DS is 3.5 months. He naps on the sofa with us while we watch tv then we take him to our room with us at 11ish, I bf him to sleep and put him in the co-sleeper, he sleeps for a good 5-7 hours, then when he wakes I bf him back to sleep for another 2-3 hours and then when he wakes again we both get up.

It works well for us and I don't feel sleep deprived, so can we keep doing this until he goes into his own room in a few months, or will I regret it?