To be annoyed when people say morney isn't everything.

[racking]

I assume they have been fortunate enough to never have been on the breadline.

Money makes things so so much more easier. Yes everyone has problems but if you have money you can throw money at it at least. Granted not everything can be helped with money but alot can.

I was told this today by someone and it just really pisses me off!

Given a choice, I'd rather have a higher living standard of misery. Life punches everyone and being miserable in comfort is always preferable to being miserable, cold, hungry, walking in the rain and worrying about homelessness. I don't think anyone could disagree with that in good conscience.

I feel grateful that I had savings to pay for immediate residential MH treatment when I had a nervous breakdown as a result of my stbxh's abuse. I was at rock bottom but at least I was able to get the help I needed straight away in a pleasant environment and despite how low I was, I still knew I was fortunate at the time.

"like food, shelter, heating, shoes and coats......"

I was referring to wellbeing in the sense of how happy people think they may or may not be being more financially comfortable, not whether or not they'll think they will be happy if they are fed, housed, warm and clothed.

Everyone has a human right for shelter and food and no one is refuting that. It doesn't even come into this debate because of course people will be happier with basic life necessities.

The point I was making is, based on people having the basics a human needs, will being financially comfortable buy them happiness and is money everything? Well no it's not.

If you think having a nice house with nice things and nice holidays will make you happier (well maybe it will make you happy) then it's a false dream. If you don't have the foundation within your life that money cannot buy (friendship for just one example) then having more money will unlikely make you happier. That was the point I was making rather than "people doing food or shelter to be happy.."

*needing food and shelter

It's only in recent decades that children have been "bought" happiness or at least perceived happiness. Soft play centres, countless clubs and activities, day trips, holidays (not everyone does holidays.) Parents constantly making sure the kids are entertained (again not everyone.) Kids being bought countless treats and toys, a lot of which aren't played with. It's just the way things have gone.

Are our kids any happier for it or do we have a generation of kids with increased anxiety and depression?

Again not to sound twee but didn't kids used to play out (some still do but not the majority) with their friends for hours? Making up games, adventures, developing friendships, using imagination. How much did this cost? Nothing. Did those generations of children grow up isolated, anxious, scared of not looking Instagram ready? Do people in their droves reminisce about the fun they had playing out with the kids in the neighbourhood? Yes.

Yes it all sounds simplistic but the way things are now where we have children who are anxious, depressed, isolated, stressed, committing suicide(!) is very worrying. All for what.

Um I'm sure some of that idyllic generation with no Instagram etc have their share of anxiety, depression, suicides and tragedy too.

Money can't buy happiness
It can buy food, shelter, central heating and family leisure time. Robot arms and wheelchairs. It can buy books for libraries and other good causes.

It isnt just the basics. Youd be happier in a nice house and sae community rather than a cramped mouldy one in a rough area. You'd rather have the chance to travel and broaden your horizon than not.

People who say money isn't everything usually have never experienced hunger/rock bottom and being stinking poor.

absolutely nobody would rather be poor and miserable than rich and miserable.

Even if tragedy strikes (which doesnt discriminate between wealth or goodness of people) money gives you comfort of being provided for, best health facilities etc.

The difference between your position and mine Pineapple, is that you are seeing money in terms of buying the extras and luxuries in life (presumably based on your own life experience), and therefore you are unsurprisingly dismissing money as important. .

I, on the other hand, see money as vital or extremely advantageous to (a) enable you to get the essentials - and this includes non-material essentials (its not easy to make friends when you have no money unless you happen to live in a community of people who have no money) (b) being able to solve or ameliorate the problems or terrible things in life. I therefore, unsurprisingly, see money as being extremely important.

I completely agree with you, btw, about the commercialisation of children's play and replacement of children's play with 'activities'. There are wider issues around this of course, perceived stranger danger, increase in cars making streets less safe, cultural changes valuing measurable activity over play - thank you (not) testing and inspection regimes in schools! But then, i don't see this as relevant to my point on this thread as I don't see money as important because it buys the 'extras' (which in this case I don't value anyway) but because it helps you get the essentials and ameliorates the crap.

that should have said dismissing money as unimportant.

I agree OP. It makes a huge huge difference. Having a bit more for the luxuries like ordering big food shops and not worrying is very nice. When money is tight it puts pressure and stress on your relationship.

It can't buy health. If you get ill, say get cancer, no amount of money can save you. But even then it could help because you could pay the most money to see the top consultant ASAP get the best treatment in the most comfortable setting and that would certainly make it a little bit easier.

and yes it doesn't bring happiness but it certainly contributes to it and it helps.

I think it's a very important issue.

goldenpuneapples, ive asked you several questions which youve failed to answer...so insisting i answer yours is quite funny.

anyway, what is poor? well its lacking the basic necessities in a society:
3.75 million people suffer serious deprivation in the uk - but guys, dont worry- these people are totally happy not knowing where their next meal is coming from and they should enjoy not having basic stuff, and play with sticks.

That doesn't really answer the question on what is perceived as "poor."

It's only in recent decades that children have been "bought" happiness or at least perceived happiness.

children have generally been seen as a blessing for hundreds of years you can read about parents rejoicing over the birth of children and mourning the loss of children from thousands of years ago, just because infant mortality was high does not mean that parents did not love their children nor does the fact that their children had to work from a young age mean they were not loved either, really poor families avoided workhouse if they could as they split families up,

poverty/poor in the UK means not enough or poor quality food, inadequate housing, not being able to afford to put the heating on when necessary, unable to replace broken or damaged clothing like shoes easily, walking long distances not for health but because can't afford the bus fare, struggling to get their children presents for birthday and christmas. no holidays, cars, days out, restaurants

this is extremely stressful and a little extra money would help these people enormously and increase happiness I'm sure

well poor means the inability to buy necessities/roof over your head/transport/school dinners- i dont have an exact income for you - thats not the way these things work.

i hear that you dont think there are poor people in this country and you dont think there are profound implications for living in deprivation - so best we leave it there.

thanks for not answering my questions too.

Money doesn't stop tragedies happening or people dying no but it's gives people a better quality of life.

When you work full time and can't even afford to spend £20 a month on yourself or do one thing a month you enjoy it's pretty miserable, if you have something to look forward too it makes the world of difference.

Helmet that's a bit of a cop out isn't it. I have described myself as a "poor person " yet you go on to say I think no such exists. You quote "statistics " but don't back them up when asked what exactly it is you are backing up via statistics.

It annoys me too. Someone that I know is always bleating on about 'collect memories not stuff' and how money isn't important to her.

Her DH is chief executive of a very well known company and they are absolutely loaded. She is always putting photos of her latest 'Loubs' or 'LV bag' on social media. She has a full time nanny for her kids but doesn't work.

I think she's got a fucking cheek to say to others less fortunate than her that money isn't important!

Would someone who claims "free prescriptions" (who isn't pension age) be classed as "poor" for instance?

Every single problem I have could be alleviated by money.

You're right OP! I've been very poor until relatively recently and yore absolutely right: in the world we live in, money buys security, health, choices, even time (being able to afford a cleaner saves me half a day a week), and all these things contribute to happiness.

I would also definitely describe myself as poor.
I have a roof over my head and food in the cupboards but I have no money for anything extra.
Holidays? Nope
New clothes? Nope
Learning to drive? Big nope
Basically all the things that make life enjoyable are a big nope.

But like with most things it's all relative. I'm well aware that there are 'poorer' people than me. Doesn't change the fact that I'm poor.

Here are some responses to what is poverty:

www.jrf.org.uk/our-work/what-is-poverty

fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

What a cop-out, eh. Stupid people.

I love the idea of you going to someone who is trying to get their DC mental health help in a failing mental health system, - 'mate, counselling doesn't work' or who can't afford time off from work, 'yeah, well, work is sometimes really good.'

Really, we should tell those in deprived areas to stop faffing around with trying to improve housing, education and health issues and tell them Whitney Houston had it rough too.

Money buys you options and space.

Exactly Rory. It's all relative.

Which is why I take "statistics " with a pinch of salt, in all areas.

Someone on 10k a year could be living out of food banks on the brink of homelessness whilst another on 10 k could be claiming a further 10/15k in this that and the other and be living ok.

It all depends on circumstances.

Helmet going from your very first post I read by you, you don't have a clue about mental health issues because it was very clear in your post don't. If you did you wouldn't have even suggested the things you did.

Mental health to me is very personal and very real. When you have people suggesting you can buy your way out of it or thinking time off work is good for mental health (unless work is what is causing it) you know the person suggesting it knows squat about it.

Pleeease also don't reply pretending you do. Your last post was just shocking.

Time off work for people with depression can very detrimental because being around people is actually very helpful. Sitting at home alone in a lot of cases makes it worse. Do not mock that to score points.

Oh please. Stop trying to pretend you're the lone voice of mental health here.

Anyone, ANYONE with even the most basic or simplistic understanding of society, knows that deprivation goes hand in hand with poor mental health.

We know that those in affluent areas are less likely to have poor mental health and are more able to access immediate and consistent help.

These are not secrets or mysteries and it is not shocking to say it.