Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s domestic labour?

[SosigDog]

Around the world, women who can afford it are freed to pursue their career by other women who care for their children, cook their food, and clean their home.

I was intrigued by this article. It seems to me that every mother who works must necessarily be freed to work by delegating at least some of her domestic chores to a paid employee. And that employee must be lower paid otherwise the mother couldn’t afford to work. Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s labour?

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/04/megan-stack-domestic-workers-role-family-life/586282/

Another attempt at a clicky link www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/04/megan-stack-domestic-workers-role-family-life/586282/

Er hang on- why is it seen as women's work in the first place?
And why have we placed so little value on what we deem to be women's work?

Every mother who works must necessarily be freed to work by delegating at least some of her domestic chores to a paid employee

I bloody wish!

Or a woman could be freed to work by their male partner could pick up some of the domestic duties by reducing the hours they work. It is the lack of involvement of men in domestic duties that results in women having to pay for other women to do it for them, if they want to continue to work/have a career.

Could we not argue something equally as fatuous as most UK men have been allowed to leave the fields and work in higher paid office jobs, bu the poorly paid men who now produce our food, get up early and milk cows, and have shit pension expectations etc...?

MintyCedric at the very least we need to delegate childcare to a paid employee.

I’m pretty sure that at the point I was paying for childcare the staff were earning close to what I was- it’s as my children grew my earnings increased so I guess it’s true to an extent as most of the childcare staff were female but I certainly wasn’t earning a fortune and paying them peanuts

Or to their father. It's not just a choice of women or a paid employee!

Fucks sake. Today I have eaten exclusively from the freezer - frozen quiche, dumplings, veg etc.

Clearly this was exploiting the labour of other women, and failing to ennoble myself by bravely grinding my own fucking wheat.

most UK men have been allowed to leave the fields and work in higher paid office jobs
Indeed. A small number of men produce the food and fuel, thus freeing the rest to take higher paid jobs. It’s less obvious though as it’s less of a direct relationship.

My husband also outsources his domestic chores. Domestic labour is not my sole responsibility, and providing food for our family is not his. We share responsibility as functioning adults.

It seems most people are pleased to find that I’m at at work when they turn up with their critically ill child; to date nobody has told me to go home and sack my cleaner.

Yes. So let us now slag off 'career men' meaning any old Colin with a company car or long shirt sleeves, and ensure we judge him for all of society's ills.

Hmm, I see what they are saying. I think it's the most true in places (like the USA, where the articles author is from) where a lot of people rely on underpaid immigrant nannies.

People often mention on here about how it's amazing that women go back to work after birth so soon in the USA. Yes, but they rely on underpaid exploited workers to do this.

On the other hand, if the childcare worker is paid a fair wage and has fair working conditions, it's not really "at their expense" is it. That is making the sexist assumption that domestic type work like childcare can't be a fulfilling and successful career. And that definitely isn't true - it can be.

After all, that isn't an assumption made for other things. If I pay an accountant to do my tax, I'm not considered to be exploiting him or her, even though I could do it myself but am choosing not to.

Whether we, in this country, fall in to the first category or the second, when it comes to childcare workers wages and conditions is the question.

Thread title should read "working parents" not "working mothers".

Yep. My husband is not a partner. I will have my revenge one day but in the meantime I pay a cleaner and school clubs run by women so I can progress my career.
I have zero support from family members so at least I am not riding on the back of a mother or mother in law as many in my workplace do!

Working fathers, and all men in fact, have always advanced due to women’s domestic labour.

How very odd that it is only a problem when it is women is doing it.

Sosig I am not the only working mum.i know who has managed with a combination of support from husband/family/juggling shifts etc.

In the case of one very high flying friend her DH gave up work when their second child was born and ultimately retrained as a child minder.

I'm now divorced and my DD is older. I have plenty of friends in similar situations juggling jobs, home, parenting, and in some cases elderly parents without the luxury of paid for help.

The mistake is to think that all domestic and childcare duties are the sole responsibility of women in a (heterosexual) relationship. That is obviously deeply sexist. Women who pay other women to do domestic work or childcare are passing on the share that their male partner is not doing. Or if they are equal in their effort, then both partners are responsible for employing people.

Thread title should read "working parents" not "working mothers"

powershowerforanhour the thread title is based on the linked article which specifically talks about women.

Good point TheSpottedZebra. Essentially our society depends on specialisation, division of labour: so some people get up at god knows o' clock to milk cows, or to bake bread, other people specialise in making/maintaining the milking machine/bread ovens, and so on. Many of whom are men.

But god forbid we judge men for not grinding their own wheat, baking their own bread, milking their own cow, churning their own butter, retting their own flax to spin their own yarn to weave their own fucking nappies to cover the arses of their own babies.

No. Surprise surprise - it's just women who are mysteriously ennobled and elevated by being excluded from benefiting from any one else's labour. Because of course their own cannot possibly be of any value.

I’m incredulous at this level of sexist bullshit.

What a load of old bollocks.

Everyone in a higher paid career advances because a whole load of other people do a lot of lower paid jobs so that they don’t have to.

Society functions in that way too.

Or, let’s look at it the other way round. Working women are responsible for massive job creation. Well done us! My cleaner has a job because I have a job. And, incidentally, my cleaner is a guy.

You're right Sosigdog - that article specifically talks about women and doesn't ackowledge that fact that men have any responsibility for housework and childcare.

What about PAs and secretaries (mostly female)? Should their better-paid bosses feel shit about not doing their own admin? Or only the female bosses not the male ones?

I have a school age child and I work school hours only so no I don't and have never used paid childcare. I certainly can't afford to pay for domestic help either. So not all women.