Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s domestic labour?

[SosigDog]

Around the world, women who can afford it are freed to pursue their career by other women who care for their children, cook their food, and clean their home.

I was intrigued by this article. It seems to me that every mother who works must necessarily be freed to work by delegating at least some of her domestic chores to a paid employee. And that employee must be lower paid otherwise the mother couldn’t afford to work. Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s labour?

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/04/megan-stack-domestic-workers-role-family-life/586282/

You mean when families outsource domestic labour not women.

I totally was, Weeping. Thanks for noticing

I’m a junior doctor and we pay our nanny more per month than I earn. But I love my job so effectively pay to go to work. Hopefully one day I will earn more than our nanny (who we pay £11/hr)!!

Are working fathers advancing at the expense of women’s domestic labour?
Of course they are. But that seems to be considered acceptable. It’s ok for men to climb up on the backs of women, but when other women do it it’s exploitation.

Actually sosig I think you’ll find most people in here don’t agree with the sentiment of the article.
It’s hard to apply it to the uk too as she is American - where some families do rely on low paid immigrant workers plus she’s talking about working in China and India. Which again aren’t comparable to the uk.

I work full time and the only thing I outsource is dog walking. There's 2 dog walkers in our village, one male and one female. I do actually employ the female dog walker but could easily have gone with the man.

Domestic duties aren't just women's roles whether from the perspective of the one doing the outsourcing or the one doing the outsourced work.

I needed a nanny for the school holidays which left me out of pocket but I hung onto my job.

Two friends high fliers with young families I know one went into school playground duties/breakfast/club. Another took up holiday lets does her own cleaning/washing. It fits in around childcare for them.

I'm not accepting any of this.

Since when is it bad that wealthier high skill people employ lower skill people? Would the world be better place if the lower skill people didn't have a job at all?

Often, on MN, I find this notion of things being 'valued' and 'worth' something. The reality is we live in a market economy, and wages will rise or fall according to the scarcity of the skill that one has to sell.

Cottage industry gave way to the industrial revolution so that people could specialise in their best skill.

My friends late teen DD's are doing apprenticeships in childcare. Personally, I would discourage that as we know that earnings are never going to be great - but they are not my children.

Different people do different things at different times. After uni, I worked in a shop. My manager at the time is now my childs head teacher, and I am chair of governors.

😂😂😂. What a load of bollocks.

This is pissing me off and I'll try to articulate why- the idea that 'career women' or men, are paying poor lowly cleaners and childcare workers so they can forward their careers is the point being made but why? What about my 'career' as a cleaner? What about my friend's 'career' as a childminder? Another of my friends has just started up as a dog walker and is doing quite well. Just because we're not in high flying, 'important' jobs why is it not taken into account that cleaning IS my career, childcare IS my friend's career. We're career women too, not just little servants to be pitied.
I read the article and the writer was talking about women being more or less forced into taking roles they were underpaid for and ill treated doing- that's a separate issue surely?
None of us allow ill treatment or poor wages because of our menial jobs, if you don't act nicely we'll move on. If a worker is incapable of doing that for cultural, financial or whatever reasons that's another issue and nothing to do with women wanting careers!

The problem is men not doing housework and childcare anywhere near enough. Until that is fixed, women will be no better off even if they manage to WOH, they will just be doing double and treble work than their male counterparts while being paid nothing for that, either.

The truth is there is a fuckton of work at home once you have got a family. Until the magnitude of that is properly acknowledged, we won’t move forward. It is an enormous amount of work running the house, looking after children properly, cooking / providing meals for the family, laundry for the family, extra curricular activities for the children. The sheer amount of the above work is not recognised either individually within the family or on a societal level. Even on this thread I can guarantee we will have posters who will come on to tell us they do all of that and it is child’s play. Well, I beg to differ. This is were the slavery of women starts and the inequality gets its roots from. If every day, men came home and did a second shift like the majority of women, life would look and feel very different for us mothers.

Absolutely avocado. I work at home until school end. From 3.30 until 6 my kids needed me not tiny - 10 and 12. Talking about their day, cooking and clearing up tea, doing a wash, taking to an activity, little friend was here. I worked for 2.5 hours non stop not recognised or valued same as every other mother am no different but isn’t it outrageous all this effort is ignored?

Often, on MN, I find this notion of things being 'valued' and 'worth' something. The reality is we live in a market economy, and wages will rise or fall according to the scarcity of the skill that one has to sell.

There is market value and then there is human or ‘true’ value. I would like to think human beings are driven by more than greed and have got certain inborn ethics/ humanity/ fairness etc It is a horrendous world to live in where people only make decisions on how much money they are going to get out of it.

We aren’t paid to have and raise children and do so at an enormous physical, mental, monetary, time etc. cost to us. This is the decision which makes no sense rationally or economically. Same as taking care of our partner, our parents, looking out for colleagues, friends and our community. We do it at personal cost, but do it anyway because there should be bigger things than crude capitalism. It makes the world a much nicer place...

Bollocks. I'm a lone parent working full time in a professional job, xh works overseas and no nearby family.

I don't have a cleaner or any paid help whatsoever. I am not super woman and there will, I'm sure be many thousands of other women like me.

@avocadodream - yes, I agree people make other choices too. It was more the point that 'society' does not sit down and 'set' rates of pay according to how worthwhile things are - even if one thinks that may perhaps be a good thing to do.

Wanting to ensure an economically secure life is not really greed.

MsT but isn't that just being a parent? Talking to your kids, cooking and clearing up, doing their washing? You weren't forced to have children, you chose to have them presumably? Otherwise you'd still be cooking, washing, cleaning for just you and if there were a partner in the scene not pulling their weight it'd be the same thing just minus kids?

I'm incredulous at this level of sexist bullshit

Me too.

Jeezus.

By buying into a deeply sexist construct - that childcare and ‘chores ‘ are women’s responsibility - tne writer then uses this to make a further sexist construct. That working women, unlike their male counterparts, exploit ... women.

Women just can’t ever be free of the limelight of blame, can they.

I'm incredulous at this level of sexist bullshit

Me 3.

The truth is that even if working the mother ends up default parent and of course single mother does this anyway. My friend works full time. She uses the park and ride. At the end of the day many of the women run to their cars. One chap even asked my friend “why do the women run”?