Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s domestic labour?

[SosigDog]

Around the world, women who can afford it are freed to pursue their career by other women who care for their children, cook their food, and clean their home.

I was intrigued by this article. It seems to me that every mother who works must necessarily be freed to work by delegating at least some of her domestic chores to a paid employee. And that employee must be lower paid otherwise the mother couldn’t afford to work. Are working mothers advancing at the expense of other women’s labour?

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/04/megan-stack-domestic-workers-role-family-life/586282/

Well, as a self employed cleaner and gardener I'm all for it! I get work, plenty of it and I can get paid a better wage than working in Tesco!

Someone has to do the domestic chores though, and I think it’s fair to say that responsibility falls disproportionately on women. So hired help is mostly relieving women in that case? I do agree though, that the focus should be less on women hiring help and more on why she’s the one who needs to hire it, because she should in theory have a partner who is equally responsible.

Re-reading the article I also think it’s skewed towards well paid women who want to work rather than those who have to. The author seems to regard working as a luxury not a necessity. Only a small minority of career women are in that fortunate situation. And yes, you could move beyond saying that rich women’s careers are being facilitated by poor women’s labour, and expand that to all of society where the wealthy are facilitated by the labour of the impoverished.

I guess the key question is what should be done about it? If anything?

Is not working the default position for women then OP? So it’s ok if women have to do it but not if they choose to? Really?

Also the labour is benefitting men, who still don’t have to do domestic labour in that analysis.

Honestly, nothing needs to be ‘done about this’ beyond the author to stop blaming women and being an enormous hypocrite.

The broader structural issues around poverty and inequality in capitalism are only ever obscured by misogynistic bullshit like this.

Someone has to do the domestic chores though, and I think it’s fair to say that responsibility falls disproportionately on women

That is a different issue entirely. That article suggested that this was the responsibility of women......

I do agree though, that the focus should be less on women hiring help and more on why she’s the one who needs to hire it, because she should in theory have a partner who is equally responsible

It should be completely focused on this. The rest is misogynistic bullshit

Re-reading the article I also think it’s skewed towards well paid women who want to work rather than those who have to. The author seems to regard working as a luxury not a necessity. Only a small minority of career women are in that fortunate situation. And yes, you could move beyond saying that rich women’s careers are being facilitated by poor women’s labour, and expand that to all of society where the wealthy are facilitated by the labour of the impoverished.

Does anyone ever refer to a mans job as a luxury? In fact, have you every heard the term career man....

Only from The Man Who Has It All!

The problem is that the domestic chores are (seen as) the woman’s, so it is (seen as) down to her working that they get given to someone else to do. While the man has no guilt heaped on him as they were never “his”.

It is bad though that so many low paid, low valued jobs are women’s jobs - why so low valued, the people who care for our young and elderly and keep homes/workplaces hygienic?

drspouse

My absolute fave twitter account!

The problem is that the domestic chores are (seen as) the woman’s, so it is (seen as) down to her working that they get given to someone else to do. While the man has no guilt heaped on him as they were never “his”

Seen as by whom? Not in my house!!

not just about you, though, is it Constanza. Do try to look outside your own little world every now and then.

OP, if I follow your arguments, women do the work disproportionately because men won’t do it, and then those women pass on their domestic duties to paid employees in order to work?

So really what’s happening is men delegate through inaction to the woman of the house, the woman of the house creates a paid position predominantly for another woman?
But because that paid role is ‘women’s work’, it is automatically seen as a dereliction of duties by the woman of the house and exploitation of another woman?

I suppose I have 2 points. The first is if this work being passed on to another woman to do is so awful as to be exploitative, why should the woman of the house be doing it in the first place?
It’s not dangerous, or undignified or degrading work

Secondly, my nanny earns circa £40k a year. She trained as a nurse but found the hours and pay incompatible with her goals
Far from exploiting her domestic labour, I have repurposed her professional skills to provide her with a career which is preferable to her
I carry zero guilt for that

Do try to look outside your own little world every now and then.

Okay ....i'll add something. It's not in my house, it wasn't in my house growing up, it wasn't in my DHs house growing up and it's also not a representative view of my friends or colleagues.
Those with views like this are , thankfully, a dying breed.

That's not to say that some people don't hold these view but it is becoming less common.

I've also done significant research on women's career development which provides evidence for this.
However, there is still a body of work to be done and articles like this don't help.

Is that broad enough viewpoint for you weepingwillow ?

well, it's broader than 'not in my house' which is what you originally posted. Isn't it?

weepingwillow I wasn't aware we had to qualify all posts on here....I do hope you are questioning other posters who post unsubstantiated information and broad generalisations. I imagine that will keep you busy for a while.

It comes down to two things, really:

• childcare, housework and running a home, and cooking are STILL (FFS) considered women's work

• society is STILL (FFS) hell-bent on making women feel guilty for daring to want to work outside the home or earn more money.

yes, it would because so many posters in a deeply tiresome manner are incapable of looking beyond the end of their nose and looking at things objectively, rather than individually. I apologise for picking on yours - as you say, there are any number of posts on this thread doing just this.

I think if you had read some of my other posts you would see that that particular one was a flippant reply to that particular post.
It's my job to be objective and this skirts around one of my areas of academic research....i'm quite passionate about it.
But I appreciate the apology.

fair enough. I read the OP earlier on today and was grumbling under my breath at the first few responses, and then just read the last few just now and picked on yours! Clearly not the best example to go for!

I'd like to see more discussion about: Are working fathers advancing at the expense of women’s domestic labour?

every mother who works must necessarily be freed to work by delegating at least some of her domestic chores to a paid employee

Nope. I work and I do the housework too (along with DH). I may outsource some things to people who are better qualified or have better equipment.

As an example, paying someone to fix my shed is no different to paying a lawyer to write me a will.

Katherine yes, of course they are. Women's unpaid domestic labour, by and large, as well.

Of course, was not genuinely wondering. There was an interesting thread on MN about how much facilitating women tend to do for their husbands, that is often expected and generally not appreciated or even noticed. Working fathers are rarely shamed for that.

Yes, I think it is rarely properly pointed out to men.

I find the refusal to see, I mean properly see, the impact of women's unpaid and poorly paid domestic work almost wilful.

The very phrase 'career woman' makes me very angry. It is so very judgemental in so many ways.

This household outsources a lot of things, and dh outsources as much as I do. Is it worse to outsource someone brushing paint onto a wall or brushing water onto the floor? Applying a cloth to the outside of the car or the kitchen counter? Fixing the car or fixing trousers?

Haven't RTFT but I'm willing to bet one billion pounds that more unpaid female work hours support men than women. One BILLION.

I'm imagining you saying that in the voice of Dr Evil, MrsTP.