I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

Why are all the MJ paedo apologists saying the men are broke and only doing it for the money? They both have successful careers. James Safechuck is a director of an IT company in California and has been for many years. He will be earning a six figure salary. www.linkedin.com/in/e8james

@JazKish
It is very common for victims to share the same law firm. Usually a law firm that specialises in abuse cases. Just as there are law firms that specialise in accident and injury compensation. Law firms that specialise in workplace compensation (ie class action against asbestos companies). Law firms that specialise in tort. I could go on and on and on. Having one law firm for many victims is standard procedure.

Two, again, it is not about money. It is about the abuse being recognised. Money is only a tiny part of it, and it is called COMPENSATION. Which any victim of abuse is entitled to. The claims didn't progress in court due to a thing called the Statute of Limitations. Maybe do some research on it. And putting in a claim for compensation doesn't in any way mean they are lying. On the contrary. As I said, as victims, they would have been entitled to claim compensation. It is only fair and just. Regardless, now, they never received a cent for doing the documentary. So your claim is irrevelant.

I have clearly done far more research than you, and I know all that about the law enforcement investigations. Whats your point? You copy/pasted text there that really doesn't add anything to your post.

Those books, especially the boys book, are from NAMBLA. It was written by a member of NAMBLA. If you actually did your research, which is 100% clear you haven't done ANY research, you'd know this.

I am 100% sure he is guilt, because he has been accused before - very very few rich celebrities are accused, I mean, Bill Gates has had no accusations against him. There is no smoke without fire. The boys testimony. What they found at the ranch, including boys stained underwear hidden in a closet, NAMBLA books, naked pictures of boys, his OBSESSION with boys and never having GIRLS to stay over (which if he truly loved children - PLURAL, that includes girls, he would have had 50/50 staying over) and paedophiles almost always prefer one gender over another, just as adults in relationships do, the clear and convincing testimony of the men in the documentary etc you'd have to be lying to yourself and others or in deep deep denial to see he is as obviously a paedophile as the Pope is Catholic.

You said elsewhere he is "100% innocent". May I ask you if you where there with Jackson?

Yes Calpop, and these are Wade's credits

www.allmusic.com/artist/wade-robson-mn0001809312/credits

They dont list the music videos he directed either.

This supposedly money obsessed man also dropped out of directng a Step Up film due to his issues. Soon after he admitted he had been abused.

Jaz have you read the FBI files? I have, they're very easily accessible if you search on the Black Vault. Sorry for the length of this in advance!

The 'hundreds of pages' of investigation people talk about mostly refer to Janet Jackson's stalker - there's actually very little content relating to the abuse allegations.

Many of the actually related files are newspaper articles collected by Legat London (the FBI's overseas branch) in relation to the accusations that Michael Jackson was making sexually explicit phone calls to a thirteen year old boy in the UK. These were only collated by the FBI to be distributed to the LAPD - so little to no actual investigation into the claims themselves was done by the FBI. There's a disclaimer saying they don't intend to look into it either and it's up to the respective police services.

There is, however, a verified witness statement from 1993 from a Canadian woman and her husband who were both social workers at the time. They caught a sleeper train from Chicago to the Grand Canyon at the same time as Michael Jackson and a young boy one of his staffers identified as his 'cousin' - they state MJ was very possessive of the boy. At night they "heard questionable noises through the wall" (direct quote from FBI) and were concerned enough to report this to the conductor at the time .

There's also a tape entered into evidence called 'Michael Jackson's Favorites An All Boy Anthology'. There's no description of what was on the tape, just that it looked like it was a copy of a copy, but it's referred to throughout the documentation in the id field as 'child pornography'.

I'm sure everyone's aware of the list of NAMBLA- approved books found, so I won't rehash this here. But this is all far from exonerating!

Every single poster who is claiming that these victims of child abuse are lying for money should hang your head in shame. This attitude makes it so hard for victims to come forward, let alone get justice.

I only watched 6 minutes of that (all channel four will allow as I"m not in the country) but they are so obviously credible.

There has always been a personality cult around MJ. Whilst lots of us could appreciate and enjoy his music, his hardcore fans always reminded me of brainwashed, religious fundamentalist type cult members. They are still under the cults spell, and it will take them time to really accept it.

I feel sorry for them more then anything, as they have also been totally brainwashed.

Jaz nobody can say that he is `100% innoncent, especially when new evidence is coming out, and the material found by Police at his ranch was of child pornography, which leads to believe that was what MJ was into.

As a survivor of child sex abuse myself I was VERY sceptical that the men were only in it for the money & lying. However I nearly leapt off my seat at some of the things they said because it was word-for-word what I'd have said. Only someone who's truly been through that experience would act/speak & behave as those two did in interview. Whilst watching I did a complete 180 & totally believed them. I'm actually very thankful they had the balls to speak out. There's still massive shame in society to admit this happened to you. I now fully accept MJ is a paedo. There's just too much evidence. His life experience, especially as a child truly twisted and warped his personality. Has anyone seen Oprah's subsequent interview of the two men? It's brilliant.

No one is going to take part in something so raw and personal - and take their family into it all too- so publically for money. Sorry but that’s just utter crap. Neither of them are doing it for money. How can people be so blind?

I haven’t talked about this before because it is so deeply personal but my mum was very abusive to me growing up. Not sexually but in every other way. However, she was a master manipulator, it screwed me up for life. Here I am nearly 40 - whilst she is now terminally ill- trying to unpick it all and it’s really taken me till now to realise how I was “groomed” and how awful it actually was / is.

I will never attempt to say I suffered as much as anyone who endured sexual abuse, but I am really relate to Wade and James not having that “lightening bolt” moment until they had their own children - that was the same for me.

And also, that awful part in the documentary where Wade says he woke up to find MJ sobbing on that first night, saying how lonely he was and how much he was going to miss him and Wade feeling responsible for him. That has been the story of my life with my Mum to the point it completely destroyed my own sense of self and identity - my whole life was about her.

I will never shake the fear, obligation and guilt but programmes like this and people talking like this really helps me not to feel so alone. Survivors of any kind of abuse will know they are being honest and will relate to them.

I rewatched the OW show he did at NL and what I found ridculous was that at the time (read about it in the paper, no tv then) I believed he had a bed in his cinema for terminally ill children to lie in! When I watched the documentary and heard the true reason for that bed, I retched!

I watched it, not expecting my opinion to be changed (which is that Jackson is guilty). By the end of it, I was dripping with sweat. What happened to me was minor, and nothing to what practically every woman has gone through by the age of 18. The shame and rage were the same as theirs though.

As for the MJ apologists, there is nothing I can write that would not earn me a permanent ban. I will say that I defaced my perpetrator's grave, although I was constrained by forensics in the things I could do. Still, Lk.17.2 painted onto marble with acid made my point.

fairylea sorry to hear about your experience 💙

disgrace 💙💙💙

A few people have said, well, everyone knew this, he obviously liked young boys years ago, the trial and so forth.

But- critically he was acquitted then.

The new information in this documentary is the saddest, the sheer detail of what it actually means to experience child sex abuse. Not euphemisms about 'liking young boys' but actual explicit detail of the gifts, the talk (like to lovers), the threats and the details of what he did to them.

It's incredibly convincing, even though I rewatched the Bashir documentary and his interest in young boys between certain ages was covered extensively back then. This did add something new and is new evidence as far as I am concerned, and if it got into a court of law, would have been incredibly powerful.

I also think the doing it for money thing is horse shit. They managed to live without money for 20 years, why suddenly decide they need it now? They are speaking out now because they can, their abuser is dead and their confusion and obligation to their abuser has died also. The public are also less naive re celebrities since things like #Metoo and Yew tree. They should be supported and championed not doubted.

splintersplit sorry to hear what you went through 💙💙💙

I strongly agree we should never silence the victims voice.
I’m not sure we will ever know the full extent to MJs abuse. I read something on twitter saying his son Blanket, has gone into hiding. My heart breaks for his children

What I want to know is what the fuck was Lisa Marie Presley doing? What did she know and why hasn't she come clean on all this. Turning a blind eye makes her culpable in my mind. How can she live with herself?

I don't think it had anything to do with her? You may as well ask how any of his celeb friends could live with themselves.

It's been said that he courted her and married her because he wanted to own the rights to her fathers' songs. And the men in the documentary said he told them he would have to have a female partner for appearances sake. It's quite possible that she never saw the real him, just a performance until she wasn't useful to him anymore.

I don't know about Wade but I work in the same area as James Safechuck and there is no way he is broke unless he has a serious gambling habit or something and there is zero evidence of that. They clearly arent "in it for the money" - they want the truth to be heard as pert of their healing process (as would I, as do the people I know and on these MN MJ threads). Apologists - shame.

I hope Janet Jackson won't come out trying to defend her brother. I know it'll be hard for his kids to accept and they may never come to terms with it.

Great post fairy lea it's helped to clarify things hasn't it.

It explains so much about separating ourselves from our abuser's and the feelings we have for them as usually, sadly they're close to us.

Blogger his kid's were the most astonishing act of selfishness. ..

Born out of his whim, denied a mother, a dad who flung one over a balcony , paraded them out in stampede of fans...hid them behind masks, didn't allow them normal schools... hideous and now we know he was a pedophilic how do we know what he did to them and they are trapped also far easier for them not to admit as well

As a survivor of child sex abuse myself I was VERY sceptical that the men were only in it for the money & lying.

Et tu Brute.

Before this documentary I assumed Jackson was innocent and the two men were opportunists, Id been a fan since my teens. It didn't take me long to change my mind. Harrowing, my heart breaks for them both.
I watched the video upthread of "MJ's deep voice" and it was a blast from the past, those familiar song lyrics I grew up with and lovely memories. It all feels like a lie now, like I was duped with a cruel lie.
I have a history of charismatic and abusive partners, so have spent the last several days trying to unpick why Ive been repeatedly drawn to such characters.

I remember he has always been called Waco Jacko and his carer was in decline before he died.

This is so sickening mjandboys.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/michael-jacksons-sleepovers-with-boys/