I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

Also, until now I hadn't even acknowledged any of your posts or noticed anything particularly relevant to my points so I haven't been "name calling" or "accusing you of anything".

But anyway, I've spent far too much time discussing paedophile's, child abuse and dissecting survivor statements recently.

I can't wait for the Netflix documentary unpicking all the Michael Jackson superfans/paedophile apologists who went into turbo drive defending him after this programme.

@Shmoople If there is new evidence, I'm all ears. If there is more made up, factually impossible BS then it will be embarrassing for all concerned. It's more likely that more and more will come of these stories these two men have told, showing them to not be true.

This money spinner has already been debunked, which will likely affect the DVD sales. The promotional shots were a waste of time.

Can't you all see it smacks of money making? Wade is broken, but not in the way you think. He is financially broken. I have tried to put myself in that situation. If I were an abuse victim, all that would matter is justice and setting the record straight. It if were my kids, the same applies. First and foremost I would be going for the truth to be heard and the punishments for the crimes issues. Not payoffs and fame. That has been the common theme through all these cases, people after money. No amount of money would be a suitable replacement if these things had really happened to me or my children.

Setting the record straight: tick
Truth to heard: tick
Punishment for 'crime issues': not possible, the bloke is long dead.
Financial recompense: good luck to him, hope he does get some money out of it by whatever means.

What irritates me about this is that if so many of the visionary posters on this thread 'knew he was a nonce', 'always thought he was up to no good', 'was as creepy as fuck', yada yada, that the children's parents didn't see this too?

The boys are victims. The parents are not. The parents are culpable also - they are the ones who put them children in harms way of what was so clearly (according to so many), an abuser. Of course the abuser themselves is totally responsible for and guilty of the act itself but the parents are not blameless.

I believe the boys, I will believe that anybody who says they have been molested, have been. PP is correct that the law as it stands doesn't support that stance. I hope those boys get the help they need to overcome the abuser's actions - and those of their star-struck, inadequate parents.

I also think that people are always wise after the fact and enjoy glossing over the bit where they were clueless and believing too. That's a bit pathetic.

I think that if parents don't wise up and stop with the idolatry and passing that nonsense onto their children, that this will happen again. And again.

I agree with ccmrob12; financial recompense wouldn't and shouldn't be the most pressing priority. Not for somebody genuinely suffering the aftereffects of not being believed, surely?

Having your experience validated and believed, gaining credibility for that. Priceless.

financial recompense wouldn't and shouldn't be the most pressing priority

It would go towards shed loads of therapy though, it's not like there's the NHS in the US where they can access help.

There will always be people disbelieving them anyway. Look here for examples, even when people can accept it could have happened, they're still finding fault, suggesting they should be prosecuted for lying in court.
The US has a different culture of suing of gaining compensation for things than the UK does. But even in the U.K, there has been compensation awarded after rape convictions in some cases.
No amount of money will change what happened, not earning nor receiving any money changes nothing, either. But I hope they do get something out of it, it will benefit their lives.

Or* not of

Maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't, Dame.

Perhaps there ought to be court-ordered therapy for ALL victims of abuse, funded from the perpetrator's means. I think though that this money needs to be ring-fenced, so that the abused are not further abused by relatives using or tempted to utilise that money for other things.

I agree with ccmrob12; financial recompense wouldn't and shouldn't be the most pressing priority. Not for somebody genuinely suffering the aftereffects of not being

Oh fuck off telling abuse victims what their priorities should be.

bettyshine You obviously don't understand the point I was making so take your own suggestion and run with that.

Perhaps there ought to be court-ordered therapy for ALL victims of abuse

Victims to comply with court orders? So victims should be sentenced along with the perpetrator?

@bettyshine so if you were offered money instead of pushing through a trial which meant your abuser would face justice if found guilty, you would take the money let them get away scott free? Wow!

No Spam, court orders the perpetrator to pay for it.

I was going to type 'court-offered' but I thought that would be confusing.

Cc somebody upthread explained to you why money has been accepted in the past and you ignored the post.
The scenario you just put to betty doesn't exist.

But it did and does. It’s exactly what happened in the chandler case. His dad, who only cared about the money and not about the alleged abuse his son suffered. Maybe the guilt of that is why he took his own life.

No Spam, court orders the perpetrator to pay for it Compensation then?

Well yes but ring-fenced for therapy to make sure that the abused person gets that help. I'm thinking of the MJ case in particular...how much of that money do you think would have been spent on the benefit of the children by those parents? Very little or none, I think. They already proved how little they cared for their children.

The point I was making earlier was that without that help to come to terms with the abuse, the money wouldn't help, would it?

Nobody can really comment on how abuse affects somebody else really, unless you're specialised and qualified to do that. I know that when I suffered, I could really have done with help from somebody who could talk this through with me without doing further damage (as well-meaning people can do). Money wasn't a factor anyway but the help would really have been beneficial.

I have no issue with compensation after a verdict has been reached. But to sue or discuss an amount before hand just smacks of greed and desperation.

I think it's a bit Orwellien when we begin dictating to abuse victims what they are to spend their compensation on, Lying. Courts have no place putting conditions on victims. What if they feel therapy won't benefit them? Should they not receive compensation if they refuse to spend it on what the court decrees fit?

@ccmrob12 you have been presented with bucketloads of evidence on this thread which you seem to be ignoring. You also keep repeating that the two victims defending their abuser previously - despite many explaining this is a common occurrence when people, especially children, have been groomed. You completely fail to even try to understand the ramifications of abuse and I am actually astounded that you think your views don't affect other abuse victims. Of course they do!! People like you - who will nitpick holes, look for reasons to call victims liars and worst of all expect victims to follow a certain victim-like pattern, otherwise you don't believe them...people like you, who make up a huge number, put CSA survivors off reporting their abusers. Because despite the truth we know plenty of apologists will be waiting in the wings tying themselves in knots to discredit us and label us liars.

You also keep repeating that the two victims defending their abuser previously - despite many explaining this is a common occurrence when people, especially children, have been groomed

The victims very clearly explained why they did that too and if you didn't know why it's common before seeing the documentary then I wonder why you wouldn't use it to explore the reasons further and expand you knowledge of sexual abuse.

Spam, why are you so determined to look at the 'worst case scenario' of what somebody posts? I'm not talking about compensation as a whole, just that money for therapy - in whatever format - should be ringfenced so that it's available to the victim if they want to take it up. They don't have to. The perpetrator though, would have to pay for it, whatever it costs - and that would be court-ordered.

I've lost interest and give up now though. I've explained and been told to 'fuck off'. I really do have better things to do than keep posting on a subject that ultimately doesn't matter, it's just chatter and gossip overlaid with navel-gazing. Nobody here gets to decide what happens in this case or has any impact on the judicial system, despite the posturing.

I think that speaking out against abusers matters a great deal.