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Original poster

I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

999 replies

Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 10:30

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

OP posts:
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12
thetwits · 05/04/2019 08:27

I watched CBB last year if those cameras weren't there Ryan Thomas would have had his arse handed to him. People would have said I believe you Roxanne no need for evidence you said it so I believe.

Your word is never enough or otherwise there would be a lot more prosecutions in the court room.

My partner knew someone who got done for rape. He told the police he wasn't there and how they caught him was through DNA he left a can of beer behind. Was his DNA ever found on the children I would be curious to know that.

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 11:53

You mean your partner knew a rapist? What has CBB got to do with anything? Do you understand that people's testimonies are evidence? Or do you mean you expect to find physical evidence decades later and won't believe it until it's presented?

Sagradafamiliar · 05/04/2019 12:00

@thetwits I just went to tag you in this post and it says you're the OP, is that right?
I think given your latest posts, you have to take a step back and think about what you're saying. Surely you must realise how you come across?

thetwits · 05/04/2019 12:10

He didn't know it at the time until they convicted him.

Do you understand that people's testimonies are evidence?

Its still there word against his/hers. It wouldn't be 3% would it that figure would be a lot higher. A judge and jury has to decide which word of mouth to believe. A lot of judges don't want to ruin someone's life especially if there is any doubt and not much prove.

thetwits · 05/04/2019 12:12

I have only been an op once on a thread I started and it only got one response. That was ages ago. Don't project your feelings onto me I am not the justice system.

thetwits · 05/04/2019 12:16

Sagradafamiliar the reason I brought it up if you open your mind for a moment is because if that can of beer weren't there he would have gotten away with it.

Even the most hardened criminal will get caught out eventually.

Sagradafamiliar · 05/04/2019 12:22

(Ah right, maybe I'll ask MNHQ about that as I didn't think you were the OP but it says you are next to your username when I went to type your name?)

Well you say that even hardened criminals will get caught in the end but in your post just before, you recognise how hard it is to get a rape conviction.

thetwits · 05/04/2019 12:25

No it doesn't I only signed up yesterday. If it happens again then there case is stronger that's how fucked up the legal system is.

thetwits · 05/04/2019 12:29

Look at the last case against Jackson it was there testimonies that got him free. There was no other evidence to prove otherwise.

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 13:21

@Sagradafamiliar it's a glitch I've noticed it a few times!

@thetwits with respect you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't know what the jury used to ascertain there was reasonable doubt. Juries can often think defendants are guilty as sin but still have to find not guilty because there is a reasonable doubt. Please brush up on the law before making assumptions.

thetwits · 05/04/2019 13:33

The jury found him innocent unless they are MJ fans. He is dead there is nothing anyone can do. There is one thing you can do when they publish there book make sure you buy it. Support them as much as you can.

NotMyUsualTopBilling · 05/04/2019 14:05

I guess you think Saville is innocent too going by your logic?

thetwits · 05/04/2019 14:10

His great niece came forward saying he done it to her to. He was a repulsive man.

Give them your money and buy there book when they release it.

NotMyUsualTopBilling · 05/04/2019 14:13

But he's dead, no one ever legally accused or investigated him before he died so it can't possibly be true...

I won't be buying any book but thanks for the recommendation 😉

thetwits · 05/04/2019 14:18

They'll be disappointed to hear that.

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 18:35

@thetwits juries do not find people innocent. That's not how the law works

ccmrob12 · 05/04/2019 18:39

Yup, that will be the next promotional item, or will it. Think about it, Robson already tried to flog a book at no one would touch it with a barge pole.

I am genuinely interested to know how Chandler and Arvizo feel about these two. If they were telling the truth and these two robbed them of their chance to convict, then I can't imagine how it would make me feel if I lied and cost someone their chance at justice. Be interesting to know if there any recourse on this with the criminal system in America and see if/when they get charged with perjury? If they don't then we can safely assume that the district attorney doesn't feel they were lying the first time around so would logically be lying now.

ghostpop · 05/04/2019 18:43

Be interesting to know if there any recourse on this with the criminal system in America and see if/when they get charged with perjury? If they don't then we can safely assume that the district attorney doesn't feel they were lying the first time around so would logically be lying now

Or maybe they'd understand how grooming and coercion works.

Sagradafamiliar · 05/04/2019 19:04

Yeah that's not how it works cc
Wasn't it only Wade who lied in court anyway, not the both of them as you continue to accuse them of? And wasn't he a child? An abused, confused child? Should it be lawful to bring cases against coerced, frightened children?

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 19:09

There'd be very very little point in charging a victim of child sexual abuse with perjury for the hell of it. It would do more damage than not.

Chandler and Arvizo probably look at them and understand exactly how they feel, and probably feel comfort knowing it's not just themselves Victims are not bad guys in these situations and I think other victims recognise that.

Still waiting to hear why the MJ defenders wouldn't let their kids have a sleepover

ccmrob12 · 05/04/2019 21:02

For the same reason I wouldn’t let any other stranger look after my kids alone. Simple, I don’t think you need to keep banging on about it.

They both testified in the 1993 case, and the 2005 one was Robson as an adult.

Safechuck didn’t testify in the second court case, as he said in the documentary that he told his mum that Michael was a bad man. This is the first time he claimed to know it was the first time he knew what MJ had been doing to him was wrong. The second time, as per the Oprah interview, was when Robson tried to sue for millions and thought he fancied a piece.

Which was it mate?

ghostpop · 05/04/2019 21:35

Why do you think mj wanted to have sleepovers with young boys? Why was he so keen to be alone with them? Honestly I think it's bizarre to try and claim there is any other reason than the obvious one.

I didn't really follow the previous trials and maybe naively has no idea that he was spending time alone with young boys overnight, regularly.

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 22:18

For the same reason I wouldn’t let any other stranger look after my kids alone. Simple, I don’t think you need to keep banging on about it.

Simple indeed. You still haven't given a reason though? You just keep saying "for the same reason"? What's the reason?!

They both testified in the 1993 case, and the 2005 one was Robson as an adult

So one when they were children in the midst of being groomed and the other as an adult who had spent 15 years being groomed. You really don't get what grooming is do you?

Anyway, mate, you haven't told me if you feel proud that you're part of a reason survivors of CSA don't come forward? Yes? No? Which is it mate?

GunpowderGelatine · 05/04/2019 22:20

I am so extremely embarrassed for the people defending MJ. How blind/thick do you have to be to think that either:
A. A man with talent and power can't possibly be an abuser, despite at least six formal accusations (he's one unlucky chap isn't he to have so many liars say the same thing about him?!)
Or
B. Grooming doesn't exist.

A teacher in my child's school who teaches 6 and 7 years olds keeps posting shite on Facebook defending him and his "innocence". Seriously thinking of emailing the head to say she needs safeguarding training around grooming.

ccmrob12 · 05/04/2019 22:42

@GunpowderGelatine I think it would not be appropriate. If my kids were friends with his kids and wanted a sleepover and I knew the parents then I would of course consider it. But it matters not, it's not my or your kids being discussed here.

Anyway, mate, you haven't told me if you feel proud that you're part of a reason survivors of CSA don't come forward? Yes? No? Which is it mate?

Really? I'm part of the whole problem am I? We are discussing one case out of many. However if another set of victims decided to lie in court, on more than one occasion, claim time and after time nothing happened (as an adult), get slighted and fall into financial difficulty (this is motive enough for the lies now), make a complaint and change the story 5 times, have their own story proved not possible by members of his or her family, then sure I would expect similar suspicion of that person's story.

If you are talking about 99% of cases where this isn't the case, then I wouldn't expect them to be called out as these two are. You really think victims of abuse are put off by this? There are some victims of abuse who are calling them out on this as well, across the multiple threads created on this topic...so please don't try lying the guilt trip.

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