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I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

999 replies

Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 10:30

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

OP posts:
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12
thetwits · 04/04/2019 17:05

That's if they were abused by Jackson I do think they were abused but not in the way you think.

BelindasRedPlasticHandcuffs · 04/04/2019 17:06

Really? You don't see that 'No, nothing inappropriate happened' after a lifetime of practise and fearless that both you and the man you love will be imprisoned for life is an easier position to take on the stand than risking baring everything and being hauled over the coals, watching everyone you love be torn to shreds by the media (including your family) when you aren't actually ready to come to terms with what had happened to you?

Regarding images of child abuse, I thought the evidence found fell just short of the definition of 'child pornography', however did include naked/semi-clothed images of minors in amongst the 'art'.

Frankly I wouldn't want any paedophile having an image of my child naked or in a bathing suit playing at the beach because despite the fact these would not be classed as 'indecent' they would be used for indecent purposes. However, the individual wouldn't be arrested simply for having stock images or copied images that were, on the face of it, seemingly innocent.

thetwits · 04/04/2019 17:18

too many excuses and the dramatics of your post. If it happened then his family should have been behind him and supporting him.

NotMyUsualTopBilling · 04/04/2019 17:29

Their families did stand by and support them, when they eventually opened up as adults.

You seem determined that the whole thing is a money spinner. Wouldn't it have made more sense to go for cash when MJ was alive if that was the case given that his standard problem solver was to throw money at them to make them go away rather than ride it out and prove his innocence?

No one that watched that show could say that their parents were without fault and were not partly to blame BUT it's also very hard to watch it and not see that MJ was a very manipulative fucked up little man.

thetwits · 04/04/2019 18:17

Everyone knew he was fucked up all you had to do was look at him but he made himself vulnerable and easy pickings for people out there.

thetwits · 04/04/2019 18:37

A quote from will I am Will opened up on the topic in a new article with the Mirror posted on Friday (March 29). “I don’t know what to trust or who to believe," Will.i.am said. "Who is behind it or what? Obviously it’s money. All I know is it’s a smear campaign. If he did it, then it’s sad and inhumane. But if he didn’t, then what is happening is sad and inhumane.”

That's exactly how I see it.

NotMyUsualTopBilling · 04/04/2019 18:49

Do you need some form of counseling to deal with this?

thetwits · 04/04/2019 18:52

Sad and inhumane.

ccmrob12 · 04/04/2019 19:13

@BelindasRedPlasticHandcuffs it was either child porn or not. There is no gradient for me. The fact he was not at least charged for having indecent images of children speaks volumes, probably because there was none. Sexual images of children is not art.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 20:37

@ccmrob12 I'm a bit confused was your video the 27 minute one supposed to show Michael is innocent? I've just watched all of it and I'm more convinced than ever that he was a deeply manipulative man, and so obviously a peadophile.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 20:42

Also the the train stations, there were 4 at Neverland, and these have been shown on videos as early as 1992. It's just hat ONE wasn't built until 1994. Sorry to ruin your"gotcha" moment.

Even if poor James Safechuck did get the date wrong - it's common enough for adults to misremember dates in their childhood, but when you have the added impact of abuse trauma it makes it even harder. It's completely plausible that he got the date wrong. I bet, for example, if someone asked you how old you were when you went to X place as a child you'd be out a year or two. Yet we have MJ lions jumping up and down because a man who was raped as a boy gets a date wrong? Fuck off! go somewhere and and congratulate yourself for being a huge reason as to why people don't come forward. It's YOU. You are the problem. Hope you are proud

ccmrob12 · 04/04/2019 20:43

You are clearly not open to anything other than that conclusion....like I said no matter what he will always be guilty no matter what is placed before some...

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 20:51

I didn’t realise the UK got a different version to the US. It was apparently edited in relation to timelines and factual errors in the original

Actually it was edited to allow for more ad breaks over a shorter period.

mrstinky · 04/04/2019 21:00

I identify as an elf. Fuck it had enough I was born in a mad generation.

mrstinky · 04/04/2019 21:05

Cant beat em join em. Oh and my DD has just told me she wants to identify as a horse.

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 21:15

like I said no matter what he will always be guilty no matter what is placed before some

Well perhaps if you placed something before us that was actually compelling to counter the huge amounts of evidence people have kindly provided you with on here, I'd listen.

Tell me @ccmrob12 would you have let your kids sleep with Michael? What about you @thetwits? If not, then why not? And if it was Phil the Joiner, a childless bloke from down the road who built a play park in his back garden and invited children he didn't know for sleepovers, would you think he was up to no good? What if he was a REALLY REALLY good joiner, the best in the world? Would you believe it was innocent then?

DesertSky · 04/04/2019 21:17

I know how you feel OP. I remember discovering his music as a child and absolutely loving it, especially a lot of the Jackson 5 songs.
Growing up I always thought he was a strange man, no doubting it but hugely appreciated his talent and how he changed the music industry. There really wasn’t anyone like him as a performer.
Later on I’d heard the sexual allegation rumours and like a lot of people thought he was being targeted and blackmailed for his money.
I think the main reason I actually believed his innocence was knowing his childhood story of where his father physically abused him growing up and that because of his fame and pressure put on him, MJ really didn’t have much of a childhood. I naively believed that this was why he cared so much for children and especially boys as he was almost reliving his childhood by showing these kids affection/buying them toys etc. I even recall defending him saying “He doesn’t even seem sexualised. It’s like he’s asexual and has a child’s mentality.”
After watching the documentary I can just see how sick in his head he actually was. He completely abused his fame and position and it’s horrific to think what those boys went through. For those to even consider those men were lying then so were all their families. You can see real hurt and devastation in their faces and by all accounts both mens’ relationships with their mothers have been hugely affected. Very harrowing.

mrstinky · 04/04/2019 21:20

You have only read thetwits comments on this page she said she has 4 children and thinks the parents are money hungry.

thetwits · 04/04/2019 21:42

What about you @thetwits? If not, then why not?

Read my posts all of them then ask me that question again. Why would any mother leave there children with a man they don't know regardless of who he is. Is Micheal Jackson the only weird one in this not the parents. Everything to gain and nothing to lose.

ccmrob12 · 04/04/2019 22:23

@Gunpowder, no I wouldn't, but these parents thought it was okay so it matters not what you or I allow our kids to do. Stop using the "if it were Barry down the road" line as well, it wouldn't matter who it was. The answer would still be no.

"The revelation which has gotten the most attention (it has been featured in at least three of the major U.K. tabloids), deals with the story of accuser James Safechuck, who was originally presumed to be the more credible of the two alleged victims. It centers on Safechcuk’s detailed claim in the movie that he was forced to have sex with Jackson, near the start of his abuse, in the second floor of the train station at Jackson’s Neverland Ranch.

In the film and in his lawsuit deposition, Safechuck says that his abuse by Jackson ended in 1992, when he was about 14 years old. A huge part of the movie’s narrative is that Jackson lost sexual interest in these boys when they reached the age of 14, supposedly because that is when puberty hit (though the average white American boy currently begins puberty at around ten years old).

However, there is now a huge problem with Safechuck’s allegation. Construction on the train station building, which was not commenced until late 1993, wasn’t completed until mid-1994, and after that time, Jackson, who had just gotten married to Lisa Marie Presley, was rarely even at Neverland for the next several years.

This suggests that Safechuck, based on his own testimony, and the film’s most prominent premise, made up the story about being abused in the train house. This would be problematic for anyone who has no corroboration for their dramatic claims, and who finally came forward to sue 21 years after their abuse, but given the remarkably wide latitude which abuse claims are given, especially in the #MeToo era, it would hardly be devastating on its own.

But that radically changed when the movie’s director Dan Reed, who has been effectively acting as the PR director for the massive lawsuit these accusers have against Jackson’s estate, inexplicably poured gasoline on a brushfire. Instead of simply saying Safechuck was mistaken (which would have only been seen as rather strange), Reed decided that Safechuck had indeed been abused in the train house, but his star victim had just gotten the year very wrong.

Except that explanation simply doesn’t work, and it causes enormous portions of Reed’s film to go down in flames. Even if we concede that Safechuck was just mistaken about the train house episode occurring at the start of the abuse (which he says began in 1988), at earliest Safechuck is at least a mature 16-years-old by the time it was built.

So, according to the movie’s own director, Safechuck lied under oath, lied in the film, and his abuse at 16-years-old, at which time he was clearly well past puberty and even larger than Jackson, blows apart the project’s entire theory of how and why Jackson supposedly only preferred the company of very young boys. But as much as this episode brings suspicion to the credibility of the research and testimony behind Leaving Neverland, it is really only a piece of a much large puzzle."

www.mediaite.com/opinion/why-is-u-s-media-silent-on-the-implosion-of-leaving-neverland-while-the-u-k-press-is-pouncing/

#implosion

Sagradafamiliar · 04/04/2019 22:32

😬 yikes

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 23:15

Stop using the "if it were Barry down the road" line as well, it wouldn't matter who it was. The answer would still be no.

I wasn't asking if you'd send your kids to Barry down the road, I am asking if Barry had been accused of all the things MJ had, and admitted to sleeping with strange boys I his bed, would you believe he was innocent if he was good at his job? Because MJ being good at his job seems to be the only reason supporters think he's innocent. So I'm just wondering if this bizarre logic extends to everyone?

And no I won't stop asking it because no one has actually answered the questions despite it being asked several times.

no I wouldn't, but these parents thought it was okay so it matters not what you or I allow our kids to do

So why wouldn't you let your children sleep over at MJ's house if invited?

I'm not sure the part you copied and pasted is an #implosion as much as it is #totalbollocks but let me explain something you could have probably worked out for yourself if you'd applied a little critical thinking (though I am repeating what I posted earlier):

In the event that James Safechuck did get the date wrong (remember there was more than one train station at Neverland so he probably didn't get it wrong) - why are you expecting someone recollecting childhood events to have a perfect internal documentation of dates and times? Do you remember your childhood perfectly and the dates of certain events? I doubt it. Imagine going through trauma of sexual abuse, where it's proven that it can make memory can even fuzzier than normal - it's absolutely plausible that he got a date wrong. Your hole picking is utterly pathetic and embarrassing. You're not as smart as you think you are.

I am a CSA survivor and I can tell you things that happened but I'm fuzzy on the ages it did. I could be out by as much as 2-3 years. The abuse still happened. And it's nasty little apologists like you that make me reluctant to come forward. So intent on defending their idol/loved one that they purposefully throw themselves into delusion - but then harm others by incessant and irrelevant nit picking of stories thinking they have found a "Eureka" moment. Tell me, how does it feel to be a part of the reason so few people speak out about sexual abuse? Do you feel good about yourself? I can't say what I want to say to you and your like because MNHQ would kick me out, so I will say - go away and educate yourself about CSA and grooming and give yourself a slap across the face and wake up.

Sorry (not sorry) your childhood hero turned out to be a nonce. That must be hard, I guess, if all you aspire to have in your life is an idol who doesn't know you exist. But grow up and wake up to the fact that he was an immensely evil man and stop being a peadophile apologist

BTW I don't think you know what "triggered" means. I think keyboard warriors like you think you've adopted this term in an ironic "ooh don't get triggered" way but actually you just sound like a massive tit

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 23:16

And that article's gist seems to be "See, he didn't just like raping LITTLE boys, he liked raping teenage boys too, ha, gotcha, liars, we love you MJ" Hmm

GunpowderGelatine · 04/04/2019 23:18

Why would any mother leave there children with a man they don't know regardless of who he is

Well I quite agree @thetwits but i'm not sure how allowing children to sleep over at Jackson's means he didn't sexually abuse them?

ALannisterInDebt · 04/04/2019 23:28

Really shocking that the mothers allowed their boys to sleep in his bed, but after watching the documentary it's easier to understand how the whole family was seduced and groomed, of course, he didn't get his hands on all the little boys he wanted. Some parents felt uncomfortable with the set up and restricted his access, but his wealth and celebrity ensured he had more than enough parents and children in awe of him and easily manipulated.

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