I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

Hi Persimmonn thanks very much, actually it was another poster on here that provided there extremely interesting Reddit information that i am using. No I am a normal stay at home mum, but have postgrad degree in Psychology, and since watching the Leaving Neverland Documentary it has fuelled my interest in the subject, I am finding it quite interesting . I am angry after all the factual evidence against him, and his obvious overt behaviour, people are still being deluded. It was the hold that he had on people. Seeing that evidence of a male child molester, from the FBI specialist on child molester, it every part of his overt behaviour can be tied in with the facets of child molestation.

I have seen MJ in his Black and White concert back in the 90's when I was 14, and found his crotch grabbing a bit disgusting. And always wondered when I was young why he preferred girls, now I know.

Well you really should hold on to that interest and do something with it, as it’s clear you’re very knowledgeable in the subject :)

He also did that horrible crotch grabbing dance in the Annie are you Ok video too. It’s at the end when he’s just dancing provocatively making deep breathing sounds. Disgusting.

Thanks so much Persimmon, I am thinking of going into Clinical psychology when the kids are older😁😁. Oh god the horrid breathy baby voice when he sends Wade that birthday message and when he talks about bed sharing😨😨😨

Yeah I mean I was in my 20s when the Jordy Chandler stuff came out and I just thought he was a perv. But I’d always thought he clearly had serious mental health issues so I guess I wasn’t surprised either.

I thought the crotch grabbing was just really really naff. I mean he wasn’t at all a sexy singer so it seemed a bit odd and try hard.

I have to say when I was a teen in the 80s Jackson was just deeply uncool - I always disliked us music so I think my generation didn’t have such a strong investment to him as a star.

in not to ^

Does anyone know anything about Lisa Marie Presley and her views? I never saw it as a genuine relationship at the time and they got together in 1994/5 (I think) when accusations were first made against him. I think Safechuck mentioned it in the documentary- that MJ had to be seen with a woman. Yet even when they were together, it appeared that MJ continued his dalliances with young boys. Was she turning a blind eye or openly protecting his name? I never understood why someone with their own wealth and fame would need that sort of relationship if it wasn't real, but yet I never could understood how it could be genuine?

I’ve just finished watching the Martin bashir interview with MJ. I’ve never seen it before and it was very creepy. The part that made me shudder and worry the most was when he states that Debbie “gifted” him his children, because he had to be a father, and how he brought them home minutes after they were born without their mother, like they were toys. This sounded so worrying, I’m just hoping those kids weren’t ever touched. Then he went on to say he wants 2 children from each continent of the world. Like wtf?

The way he was high with his fans outside the hotel and the weird women wanting to hug him and broke down crying, like he was God or something. This is why he thought he could get away with it. He thought he was God.

I think it's easy to say the Martin Bashir interview was creepy. Seeing it through 2019's lens, it's weird. Wrong. Sickening.
In the 80s and 90s though, he was just kid like himself. NOT saying this was right, just the way it seemed.
If the recent documentary anything to go by, we were all duped.
We're more aware of this type of shit now, and I think that's a good thing.

Sorry but Bashir’s interview was 100% creepy at the time. I questioned a) why he hadn’t been arrested and b) how his entourage were getting away with enabling his behaviour.

He was never like a kid in the 80s. He was a really weird fucked up falsetto-singing, crotch-grabbing, rodenty, self-mutiltating freak.

It always astonished me that his music was in any way popular.

Sorry but Bashir’s interview was 100% creepy at the time. I questioned a) why he hadn’t been arrested and b) how his entourage were getting away with enabling his behaviour.

I can agree with this too, though. Even as a teen, I thought it wasn't right somewhere, you just don't do that. It was creepy, and WTF.
He did have a childlike persona which was accepted back then though.
Not right, but accepted.

I remember when the Bashir interview came out and it was huge, he was very much seen as a creepy weirdo from it. We didnt stop saying 'THATS INGNOREEEEEEEEEEEEEENT'' and 'YOU DONT CLIMB TREES?' for about 5 years after at school. Then I thought everybody pretty much knew the truth despite the trial verict.

I’m wondering whether seeing the interview pre-kids and post-kids makes a difference with how you view it? I know a teenage me was very naive and always believed MJ was “child-like”. But adult me with kids, after watching Leaving Neverland, it’s clear this was not right.

I’m wondering whether seeing the interview pre-kids and post-kids makes a difference with how you view it? I know a teenage me was very naive and always believed MJ was “child-like”

Same. As an adult with kids it does come across as "how could you do that."
When I was 14 early 90s though you didn't think as much of it.

God only knows how any of us were blinded by his ‘child-like’ persona, but I guess hindsight is a great thing.

Despite being a fan when I was younger, I couldn’t quite fathom his obsession with children and boys in particular. Thinking back to the film Moonwalker, even his weird colection of fantasy-type ‘narrative’ plots throughout the film with the three children and him seem very odd now. When they are in that meadow at the beginning, he his holding all of their hands and creeping about pretending to be protective and reassure them that ‘Mr Big’ isn’t anyone to worry about. And that whole ‘transformer’ part when he morphs into that bizarre android / terminator thing... it all just alludes to his inflated sense of power, ego, and how he thought everyone around him could be controlled.

I’m shocked at how much I actually enjoyed the film at the time. I think I might burn the video now.

I always found him disturbing. His "child like" persona, which was always excused with the comment " well he didn't have a childhood so of course he is like this ", seemed like a far-fetched excuse. Plenty of people have had a bad childhood ( read Billy Connolly's biography for a horrible example ) but have gone on to lead normal lives.

Birdie6 that is what Ken Lanning said, that male preferntial child molesters are not all the arctype monsters, they can be sweet and kind in the part of their seduction routine. That is what MJ did with his buying them expensive gifts, inviting them to Neverland Ranch, it was not all sexual, they also had fun with him, that is what made it confusing for the young boys. James Safechuck said that he loved MJ.

What I found disturbing, watching one of the video evidence of one of the boys talking, was that MJ showed him the Exorcist, and when it scared him, and he was visibly frightened, invited him to his bed to calm him down, why would you do that! That is kind of an emotional abuse. Why would you show a young child an X rated movie in the first place, of course it is going to scare them.

Some of the boys were talking about MJ coming to their houses and sleeping in their bedrooms or beds with them, I guess like Ken Lenning said, he seduced the parents to. No normal parent would let a random Joe Bloggs do what they let MJ get away with. I think if you look back on obvious MJ interviews and overt behaviour, all the signs are there, just people lowered their guard because of who he was. If he was an average Joe they would be baying for his blood.

If you listen to MJ birthday message to Wade Robson, it is wrong on so many levels. From the inappropriate content to a little boy, to the seductive and high pitched voice MJ uses. It sounds like a message you would send to a lover, not a little boy.

I saw Bashir just before I had kids and I still thought what he was doing was probably illegal. I would have been early 30s.

But as I said above I never fell for his schtick as a teen either.

As teens we all thought he was asexual. He just got more and more weird.

Yeah, I can't think of one good reason why Wade and Safechuck didn't come forward sooner...

www.thesun.co.uk/news/8660305/michael-jackson-fanatics-sue-wade-robson-james-safechuck-leaving-neverland/

It even if Wade and Safechuck haden't confessed, the evidence is out there for all to see of MJ and his inappropriate liasons with boys. You don't see MJ family sueing as they knew the men were right. It is only the Fanatics that are sueing. Even if there was videos with MJ abusing boys, they would find a way to excuse it, they make me sick.

I wish Wade, James and all the other people involved every happiness in life.

There is now no disputing what happened. I for one will never play another Jackson song and I was great fan of some of his earlier stuff.

We all have some blame to shoulder. How many carried on buying his music or simply ignored the signs.

I remember when Jarvis Coker humiliated him on stage and I felt sorry for MJ! I wasn't even much of a fan at that point.

@Biancadelrioisback I am 100% in you shoes can't bear to watch it but logically as a parent I know he is lying.