I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

And they are usually vulnerable, such as single parents, or families who have problems.

Desparateforspring found the bit where Bill Dworin LAPD 1976-1999 is talking about the indecent items that were found in MJ ranch it is 8 mins 39 seconds in

Cheers aero. That series look's really interesting, more names and even more boys though. One called Frank now!!

I had heard about the book before though.

Yes 4 parts with numerous involvement of MJ and boys, with some experts giving their opinion. It just always falls in a certain pattern of paedophile behaviour. Really those documentaries under Reddit just supports what James Safechuck and Wade Robson were saying. I believe them even more.

It’s pretty clear that he was a paedophile. We just didn’t challenge it at the time because he had such a big brand.. He used to walk hand in hand with little boys dressed like him in full view of the whole world.

If he was alive today that man should be locked up. He ruined lives..

Martin had him sussed in those interviews.

Like Jimmy Savile he hid in plain sight using his strangeness as a cloak. Act weird all the time and people will explain everything away as just being their way. On a different thread somone said that MJ groomed us all and I think there is a lot of truth in that.

In the documentary both Wade and Jimmy are very believable and hugely damaged by what was done to them. They were in love with Michael Jackson. They were sexualised at a very young age, isolated from family so that being abused became their normal. Now as adults they know what happened was wrong but they feel guilty, complicit in what was done to them. Michael Jackson made them feel responsible.

The problem with grooming is that it feels nice. It's nice to be treated as special. People enjoy being groomed. This was what happened to both boys (and probably others) and their families. To fight against it is hard, it means fighting against the enjoyable feelings, not being treated as special.

Yes I think that Martin Bashir had the full measure of MJ.

He put so much time and effort into grooming the children, I don't know when he found time to make any music and rehearse his act.

At least Wade and possibly others were in his act. The grooming was part of the act. Plus he had staff to do a lot of the grunt work for him. Everyone had to follow his lead. Much easier to look polished if someone else does the polishing.

@dartitus "I think Michael has a mind of a child seeing as he didn’t have much of a childhood himself and was truly a kid at heart."

Again you are ignoring the fact that he used that EXCUSE as a cover, a blind. A grown man who has explicit XXXX rated - not merely R rated - porn is not a 'child in mind'. A child does not have sexual interests like that. He had sharp business acumen, had a deep voice in real life, and read extreme hardcore porn. For f sake, wake up!! He never had the mind of a child, he had the mind of man who is a sexual human. And the childhood thing as I said was a COVER, so you would THINK that. Yet many people have had far, FAR worse childhoods than Jackson's priveleged childhood. None of those built a paedophile equivelent of a candyman van in the yard in Neverland. Funny how so so soooooo many other child stars in hollywood never needed to 'have a childhood'. Strange how it was only Jackson. His not having a childhood was a cover, a good EXCUSE. And you fell for it.

"BUT I know I would want my offender behind bars because no money could make me forget that I was abused."
This has been explained so many times by many people, not just myself, I feel at this stage I need to collate a copy/paste to insert every time someone such as yourself comes on here. Inn fact, each of your arguments have been seen on here around 240 times and rebutted each time. We have all heard every single argument before. And on that note; money is compensation. If you are in a car crash and it is the other driver's fault, you are entitled to compensation. If you trip and fall on dodgy council road work that isn't adequately signed and with OHS, you can sue for compensation. There is NO SHAME in taking COMPENSATION money. Because that is what it is. And you are entitled to it. Also, many child psychologists, police officers, child services officers recommend against going to court as depending on the trauma of the child, it can re-traumatise them. Around 3% of all child molestation/abuse cases make it to court, for various reasons. And courts are brutal! Can you imagine how a Defence Attorney will rip the plaintiff, even a child, apart? It is often deemed too traumatic to try. Regardless, compensation is a victim's right, why do you or anyone else think you have the right to make a victim feel guilty for accepting compensation?

"He went to court when he was accused the second time and the whole jury did not believe any of the victims on 10 counts of assault, Michael walked out a free man"
OJ Simpson. That is all I will say to that.

"one Of the victims tried to see Michael for millions years after he died and the case was dismissed"
The case was dismissed purely because Statute of Limitations had run out, and on another technical reason. That is the only reason why it was dismissed.

"he also defended Michael in court and to the public many times as an adult."
Irrelevant. Many, many victims often deny they were abused and lie about it. It is very common. It is very, very common. Because people simply don't want to believe that they themselves were abused and cannot deal with it.

"One of the mothers even caused her husband to hang himself because she was convinced she could find fame and fortune in los Angeles because of Michael and left her own husband behind."
That is a very malicious twisting of the truth. The father had bipolar disorder and was ill for awhile. His suicide had nothing to do with his ex-wife finding fame and fortune. In addition, she never wanted fame or fortune for herself. She just wanted her son Wade to be happy. She went there for his sake, not for herself.

"just think people are so quick to believe the full story of a programme"
On the contrary!!! People are so quick to disbelieve victims, especially male victims, and especially when it is a celebrity who is the abuser. Child molestation is the only crime where people tend to take a default stance first off of doubting the victim.

"when yet every single time it’s been in the news, money has been involved and Michael has walked from court a free man."
Because celebrity. Because stardom. Because fans. Because.....OJ Simpson.

I hadn't read anywhere he had a deep voice in RL.
Source?
That's pretty chilling if so.

Here is MJ regular and deep voice

@dartitus I just read your recent post. I am sorry for coming on so harsh with you. Its just that we have so many people who come on here attempting to defend Jackson and say the same points each time, we've all heard them at least dozens of times. It seems like there are at least 2 people every day that come on here with the same arguments, so it does get quite frustrating. I apologise.

Anyone doubting please read the Reddit link that i have provided and others have. It is complied of very interesting evidence for MJ being a prolific paedophile, who was sexually attracted to young boys. Within the link is a profile written by an FBI agent specialising in child molestation, of a male preferential child molester, and MJ fits that profile perfectly, it is chilling. Nobody saw it! Here is the link.

www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/b1bd7b/an_absolutely_essential_read_former_fbi_agent_ken/

@lunarfortjest thank you for taking the time to respond, and thanks for the apology. Like I said, I was born in the 90’s which I think has a big impact on my generation as to the accused of big pop stars and the accusers, I will admit that. All I know growing up was that I absolutely loved MJ and truly felt that he loved being around children because he knew we were such big fans. like the headline of this post - I’m so upset and angry. I no longer have the wool over my eyes, it’s just truly devastating that people so famous, so looked up to, and so wanted by many could abuse so many people (not just physically but mentally also).

What about after the molestation, when the child becomes too old?

"On any given day the pedophile is attempting to do four things: he is recruiting, seducing, molesting, andto put it very bluntlydumping. In other words, he recruits the kid, he seduces the kid, he molests the kid, and then at some point the kid gets too old so [he] wants to move the kid on...to get to his next victim. The hard part is when you finish with the child and the child begins to sense that the only reason this guy was nice to me and did all these wonderful things for me is because I was a child...And as soon as I lost that childlike appearance and characteristic he is not interested in me anymore. And here is where the threats, the blackmail, the violence, the threat of violence, may come into play, as a part of their effort to now keep this child quiet."

Would publicly charging the boy's family with say, extortion, fit the threat pattern of a typical pedophile? With a conspicuous pause and a small smile, Lanning said simply, "Yes."

This is from an extract by Ken Lanning FBI agent, in the link that I shared above. This is exactly what MJ did to James Safechuck, and Wade Robson, and why they did not testify against him and they detached themselves from the abuse until they had their own children and that is when it resurfaced and the gravity of what MJ did to them hit home.

Even though his report is not aimed specifically at MJ, it describes MJ behaviour so perfectly, it seems that it was written for him. Anyone still defending MJ after reading that is a paedophile supporter.

Many boys described MJ dumping them and moving onto the next boy when they got too old for his liking. The more I read the reddit stuff it makes sense. A clinical psychologist was describing the body language of MJ and Gavin Arvizio, and she could see some control that MJ had over Gavin, the way he was holding his hands and the way he was leaning on MJ shoulder in a submissive way. The way in which MJ talks about sharing bed with children to Martin Bashir, how it is a beautiful thing, his voice sounding sensual and high pitched, very suspect.

The behaviour of MJ is a duplicate for a man that preyed on friends of mine (girls). The love bombing. Crazy gifts (jewellery for a 10 year old). Adulation.
Sweets.
Kid friendly space.
Outward persona of utter respectability but soft. Effeminate. Bumbly.
His oddness was dismissed as artistic.
Seduced and compromised the while family.
Accusers were painted liars. Fantasies. After money.
The production line of kids.
The spotlight of object of attention surfacing in his work. In a gallery....
I really hope people start to take a longer look at this Fucker.
He ruined lives. Destroyed them yet I know he has a posse of fans who would defend him to the hilt.
Since the doc, myself and friends have been talking but co Clyde not much will happen.

MJ did have a deep voice in real life. The superfan I know confirmed this, said his voice was really surprisingly deep. Of course according to hear this was not at all odd to hear, just one of his charming quirks. And she considered herself special as she had had the privilege to spend time with him and hear his real speaking voice.

I feel sorry for Paris Jackson (and indeed the other 2 children). I see she has apparently made another suicide attempt I can't even imagine how badly affected they are by the strange childhood they must have had.

Titchy the suicide was a hoax apparently but what a hideous legacy he left his children.

Im not sure Bashir had his number.

So much coming out at the moment that should be raising our collective consciousness up re peodophiles and much of it from Netflix.

The detective person at the end of m McCann documentary said.society needs too throw money at this and wage war on peodophiles.

Oh and MJ supporters stating that he had a mind of a child, he was just childlike, here one of the techniques paedophiles use to groom kids. That report about a male paedophile by Ken Lanning just blows holes in MJ supporters justifications.

An uncanny ability to identify with and listen to children: "Number one, they have a good ability to identify with children; they know how to relate to children, they know what their likes and dislikes are. And maybe more important, they know how to listen to them. They learn what their interests are. So, they are very good at using these skills to, what I call, seduce children. In some ways, they can be [childlike themselves]. But it would be a mistake to assume that they are going to be immature and babylike. They just have a magical rapport [with kids]. Matter of fact, some people will describe that they are like a Pied Piper around kids; they just really know how to relate to kids so well. They have this ability to identify with children so well. It is almost like a part of them never grew up. Many of these kids have never been treated so well in their entire lives as they have by a preferential molester

I guess that's why sooooo many are able too work successfully with children.

I read ages ago that stranger danger campaign actually did harm because most kid's are hurt by people they know

Aeroflotgirl your posts are really informative. Can I ask is this topic related to your job or have you just researched online? Thank you for such brilliant pieces of info about grooming and child abuse, and also all the MJ links. He really was a sick fucker, and your posts just solidify my view point. Since this thread, I don’t feel upset anymore. I’m angry and I want justice for all those boys he abused.