Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

999 replies

Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 10:30

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
ciderhouserules · 16/03/2019 10:12

dartitus - mind of a child? Who masterminded his rise to mega, multi-million dollar fame? Who negotiated his career in minute detail, and supervised this career with business-like ruthlessness?

Mind of a child? Complete wool-eye-covering, there.

Yes he had a lousy childhood, with a physically abusive father and possibly financially-abusive mother, and all the Jacksons are damaged, I think.

This is NOT an excuse to rape kids.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 10:13

MJ had a modus operendi. A typical pattern of behaviour with boys.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 16/03/2019 10:32

The Reddit link - thanks for the post.

The news clip with MJ buying a wedding ring dressed in a disguise with Jimmy... then the reporter saying MJ was marrying Sheryl Crow. Hmm

As one Reddit user posted in response to another bullshit MJ fans excuse - "FANTWAT".

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 10:34

Just looking at some of your clips Calpop it is damning, there is more evidence for MJ being a paedophile, than there is against, and corroborates what Jimmy Safechuck and Wade Robson were saying in the documentary.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 10:35

That LAPD cop talking about what was found in MJ Ranch was shocking.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 16/03/2019 11:07

es. One of the mothers even caused her husband to hang himself because she was convinced she could find fame and fortune in los Angeles because of Michael and left her own husband behind.*

Bollocks! He had a history of depression and mental illness. How dare you lay the blame on his wife. The Nearest WOMAN in the vacuity. What a load of misogynistic SHIT. No wonder you love “Michael” he hated girls and women too.

AJPTaylor · 16/03/2019 11:44

I genuinely don't know how people can listen to his music.hopefully it will stop being played on the radio. Someone told me however that his sales have gone up since the documentary was released.

Desperateforspring · 16/03/2019 11:48

Areoflot which link was cop talking about finding stuff at ranch

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 12:36

Desparateforspring I don't know which series of videos it was, I can't remember, but it was on Calpops reddit links, I was watching through them. Here www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/b01mq3/megathread_the_case_against_michael_jackson/

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 12:40

Wow this is MJ to a t, his behaviour and how he operated and a lot of people are not believing it. Read the series of evidence from Reddit, it is astounding.

www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/b1bd7b/an_absolutely_essential_read_former_fbi_agent_ken/

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 12:45

Oh no my links do not work, but read the reddit stuff it is very disturbing.

TaraBoomdieh · 16/03/2019 12:46

lolaflores
Would this be a good time to mention David Steele and what he knew about Cyril Smith?”

This is so shocking isn’t it. Always thoughy David Steele was one of the good guys. Imagine he will defend his silence by saying he was told by the police that they had investigated and not found enough evidence.
But still feel so disappointed in him.

nuttynutjob · 16/03/2019 13:08

Thanks Aero,

That Reddit thread is totally Wacko Jacko

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 13:12

If you look through those Reddit videos, you will find the bit where the LAPD cop is talking about the material found at the Neverland ranch.

Aquamarine1029 · 16/03/2019 13:40

Michael Jackson was incredibly talented. He was also a sick, vile freak. I always thought he was guilty.

Desperateforspring · 16/03/2019 13:50

Wow the description is mj modus operandi.

It's also said what makes sense to me, always keep a bit of trust back! No matter who is coming near your child!

Also I believe Micheal at least by time he was answering questions on this did believe he was doing no harm.

I think this is why in many interview he does seem so convincing.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 16/03/2019 14:10

I just cant believe the people who are supporting MJ still. Who still trot out the "he was just so childlike himself really" excuse.
He was a grown man who masterminded one of the greatest music careers in history, surely he couldn't do that if he was "just so childlike himself really"
That Iain Lee video on that reddit shared above is spot on when hes shooting down that MJ fan.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 16/03/2019 14:14

Also I can't understand the reactions compared to other paedophiles from some ...
Gary glitter - outrage, records pulled from playlists (rightly so)
Jimmy Saville - outrage, top of the pops replays pulled, his knighthood stripped (rightly so)
Michael Jackson - "those men are liars"

And people wonder why abuse victims dont come forward.

BloggersNet · 16/03/2019 14:24

Anyone trying to justify mj's behaviour is a paedophile apologist.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 14:43

I agree, Paedophiles think that they are doing no wrong, that what they are doing is completely normal, they normalise it in their mind. Here is a clip on where MJ is talking about sharing a bed with children, and the way he is holding Gavin Avizio hands are very concerning. Does Gavin want that? Does he like it. It seems to be all his own agenda.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 14:44

It is Desparate what that FBI invesigator wrote about the modus opendi of a paedophile is MJ to a T and how he behaves, how nobody could see that when it was so bloody obvious.

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 14:49

This is how MJ fits the bill perfectly of a Male preferential sex offender and people are still believing MJ, would they believe it if the perp was Joe Bloggs down the road. These families it the easy to seduce families, ones where there are weakness, problems, poor families. They see a gap there and go for it, yes the parents were groomed as they were vulnerable themselves and MJ could see that.

An absolutely ESSENTIAL read: Former FBI agent Ken Lanning, a top authority on child sexual abuse and author of 'Child Molesters: A Behavioural Analysis', talks about the traits of the MALE PREFERENTIAL child molester
Ken Lanning states there are two types of child molesters: situational child molesters someone who is not exclusively attracted to children but rather uses them if they're available, and the preferential child molester someone who exclusively fantasizes about children and prefers them sexually over any other kind of partner.

Excerpt from an interview with Ken Lanning in the book 'Be Careful Who You Love':

TRAITS OF A MALE PREFERENTIAL CHILD MOLESTER:

Seduction of first the parent or parents: "Most people are just simply not suspicious enough and cynical enough and sceptical enough. Frequently the parent is a troubled parent struggling to survive in the world. You don't have a husband; your kids are latchkey kids. Who's going to watch them? You're struggling to survive, and along comes an individual who is willing to emotionally and financially and psychologically support you, provide you with help and assistance, be a father figure to your child. So, along comes somebody like this. Not only are most parents not suspicious, but they're thinking they died and went to heaven! Because of the compulsive sexual interest in children, [pedophiles] engage in high-risk kinds of sexual activity with children, frequently beginning to seduce a child right in front of the mother or father."

Well-developed techniques for gaining access to children: "Their homes are frequently described as 'shrines to children' or 'miniature Disneylands,'" Lanning said. "They have a lot of things in their house to attract children. There may be Nintendo games, computer games, toys for kids; actually, when you're in their homes you get more the feeling of [being] in the home of a child or a teenager than the house of an adult. It almost has a kind of childlike quality. And also, they usually have age and gender preferences. So, if you're dealing with a guy who likes boys ten to fourteen, his house is going to be decorated and have material [in it] that is going to be of interest to boys ten to fourteen."

Seduction ritual of the child: "They seduce children essentially the same way men and women have been seducing each other ever since the dawn of mankind. You see somebody who is of sexual interest to you. You find out something about them, whether that is three minutes' or three days' or three weeks' or three months' worth of information. You shower them with attention and affection and kindness. You buy them gifts and presents, you gradually try to lower their inhibitions and manipulate them into sexual activity. That is what the pedophile does: he seduces his victims. He is very skilled at relating to them and identifying with them, and he uses those skills to manipulate them and control them."

An uncanny ability to identify with and listen to children: "Number one, they have a good ability to identify with children; they know how to relate to children, they know what their likes and dislikes are. And maybe more important, they know how to listen to them. They learn what their interests are. So, they are very good at using these skills to, what I call, seduce children. In some ways, they can be [childlike themselves]. But it would be a mistake to assume that they are going to be immature and babylike. They just have a magical rapport [with kids]. Matter of fact, some people will describe that they are like a Pied Piper around kids; they just really know how to relate to kids so well. They have this ability to identify with children so well. It is almost like a part of them never grew up. Many of these kids have never been treated so well in their entire lives as they have by a preferential molester."

Collects keepsakes from victims and immortalizes the molestation: "They almost in a sense become human evidence machines. The odds are that the perpetrator will have a souvenir or memento that he took from the child...he may have pictures. [They will] collect pornographic and erotic materials related to children, and these are all things that can be valuable, corroborative evidence in the investigation."

Don't think their behavior is wrong: "Many pedophiles refuse to recognize that what they do is even wrong. They say to themselves, 'Society just doesn't understand what I do. I'm not a bad person. I'm just engaging in something which is now politically incorrect and [that will] change down the road'. The consensus of opinion is there is no cure for pedophilia. There may be treatments for it, there may be things you can do to help these individuals control their behavior...but if you're not admitting what you've done, then you can't even begin treatment--that's the problem."

Multiple victims: "A preferential molester is far more likely to have multiple victims, to not simply have molested one kid ten or twenty times or a hundred times, which sometimes happens. But a preferential molester is likely to have molested 5, 10, 50, 100, 200, 300, 400 kids. [It] begins in their adolescent years and probably continues until almost the day they die."

Why do victimized children continue to defend the molester, for months and years?

Agent Lanning says that, "That kind of thinking goes back to our idea that only monsters molest. These perpetrators are often seemingly the finest people ever to enter the child's life. Who wouldn't want to be with a popular coach, a great Scout Leader, the loyal postman, the favorite uncle, the neighbourhood priest? The perpetrator's station in life and what he gives the childwho is most often growing up in an emotionally if not financially needy situationis an irresistible magnet."

"What society wants to look at," Lanning says, "are the simplistic molestation cases. Dirty, evil horrible offenders who snatch and grab sweet, innocent little kids and make them have sex. [But in most] cases, the child has been seduced. The child has cooperated in their victimization, the child has gone to the offender's home again and again and again....and pretty soon you say, 'Well, is that really a victim? He got brand-new shoes, he got a bike, he got a trip to Disneyland, and he got all these benefits.' [To some] this sounds almost like prostitution. Like it was the fault of the child or the parents."

On Lanning telling police officers they need to look past the obvious:

"I try to tell them to embrace the suspect's seemingly good character because that's what a true pedophile acts like. After all, they wouldn't get very far seducing parents and children if they were mean people. Pedophiles usually work hard, go to church, give money to charity and children in the neighbourhood, and are generally helpful to others in the community."

On Jackson supporters who ask where all the other boys are:

"When you have victims who have been seduced by pedophiles, most of them don't tell. Particularly if it's a boy victim...[there's this] stigma of homosexuality. The myth among males is 'death before homosexuality'....A real man would die before he ever engaged in a homosexual act. I have adults come up to me all the time in my presentations, predominately men, when I describe this dynamic and talk about how they were seduced/molested. When I ask them, 'Who did you ever tell about this?' The most common answer is, 'I never told anybody'."

What about after the molestation, when the child becomes too old?

"On any given day the pedophile is attempting to do four things: he is recruiting, seducing, molesting, andto put it very bluntlydumping. In other words, he recruits the kid, he seduces the kid, he molests the kid, and then at some point the kid gets too old so [he] wants to move the kid on...to get to his next victim. The hard part is when you finish with the child and the child begins to sense that the only reason this guy was nice to me and did all these wonderful things for me is because I was a child...And as soon as I lost that childlike appearance and characteristic he is not interested in me anymore. And here is where the threats, the blackmail, the violence, the threat of violence, may come into play, as a part of their effort to now keep this child quiet."

Would publicly charging the boy's family with say, extortion, fit the threat pattern of a typical pedophile? With a conspicuous pause and a small smile, Lanning said simply, "Yes."

dartitus · 16/03/2019 16:11

To the people who replied to my comment - thank you for not being too harsh! I was born in the 90’s so obviously am not completely clued up, I apparecoate the opinions. Like I said before we will just never know the full truth and I know deep down that he is an abuser (I’m honestly such a fan of him, it actually breaks my heart to admit it) I was simply stating that parts of the documentary just didn’t seem to add up and feel like they left a lot out.

‘Dartitus I ask you this, would you trust your children with this man!’ - no I would not, Hence why I think the parents were awful to leave their children with a man even if he was the biggest superstar in the world, the parents were completely careless and I feel like I do also blame them for leaving their children in such a vulnerable environment. Would they have left their child with any other male stranger? No, so why Michael?

Aeroflotgirl · 16/03/2019 16:44

dartitus if you read my post above written by an FBI agent who is the authority of child sex abuse, you will see that the paedophile seduces the parents too.