Fab friend, lacks manners? What do you think?

[MidwifeyForLifey]

I've recently made a really nice friend. We have a DC the same age.

We get on but I'm very confused by her. She is always very helpful, a great listener etc etc, but seems to lack general manners?

For example, last week she was visiting and I offered a cup of tea. She said "Oh no". I said something along the lines of "Are you sure? I've boiled the kettle. I'll be having one. It'll be no trouble at all". Her reply was "I've said no thanks ". She looked like I was the one who was acting off!

Then again, I was going through a few things I love about my DC newly decorated nursery. I was asked what the box was in the corner and explained it was just a few bits I forgot to take back from buying at the Sale. She said "I'll have them. What's your price?".

We went shopping together too recently, and I was just having general chit chat with the till lady. General small talk, etc etc. We left the shop. Friend proceeded to ask me if I knew her. I said no. When pushed further, friend said she thought I might know her since I was very chatty with her.

Out for lunch, she didn't like the toppings of her meal. She said they weren't as described on the menu. She immediately called a waiter over and said something like "This does not taste right. I will change it if I can, for something else". I thought this was very direct!

I've also had lunch at her house and she's somehow seen a facial expression to suggest I didn't like something. She said "You don't like it. I will change it now. Give it here". I was mortified and insisted I did like it. She said I was not being truthful and to just let her change it

Again, she is very lovely, funny and helpful. A truly good friend. But for some reason she seems very odd in the manners department. What do you think?

It's nice to be direct and honest but I would find her a bit dour. I like random chit chat too and think manners are for making others feel at ease, which is a nice thing.
This made me laugh:

if I am back at home, and visiting someone with my mother, and they offer tea, and I say I'd love some, my mother is as shocked as if I'd flashed the room

I'm not Irish but in my family /culture it's normal to do the food dance too. I would be mortified if someone came to my house and I couldn't get at least a drink into them, and I expect to be offered (and politely refuse the first time! )

To be fair I think she sounds like me. It's the only way I can get places and get what is right for me is by being direct.

A friend of mine who worked in Germany a lot said that Germans thought our British 'manners' were actually perceived as a bit shifty and untrustworthy. Interesting perspective. Anyway, stick with her. She sounds like a good friend.

I had a very clear chat with her this morning about British customs. She said it's all very 'floral' (whatever that means), and unnecessary in a world already full of complications.

A very good answer, I think. I also told her I'd posted about it online... She hasn't caught on so I'm guessing she's not MNetter. There was no offence, she just laughed and said I should've just asked.

I'll be keeping her as a friend, she's great

Haven't read the whole thread but she sounds a bit like my Polish friend who is far more direct than me in similar ways to how you describe. I also had an Argentinian friend who was very direct. I remember once we passed a mutual friend who had just had her hair cut from being far down her back into a bob. I said how lovely it was etc...while my Argentinian friend said that she much preferred it before then just said goodbye and carried on. Just culturally different to us Brits who seem to be incapable of expressing our true opinions much of the time!

She sounds great!
I’d be friends with her

I am not British and spent years acclimatising to the fake niceness of many of the English people around me. I half laughed but also find it shocking that some people alluded to Autism. I met some amazing and open, direct English friends, so don’t want to generalise too much. But I do find many English people I encounter really insincere and I absolutely loathe the passive-aggressiveness of some that cannot open their mouths and be honest and upfront when it matters. The restaurant example literally boils my pee when going out with some English people. They sit there muttering under their breath about the service, food etc but then when the waiter asks if everything is alright, these feeble feckers won’t speak up and are mortified when I do ask for something to be remedied. There are constantly some threads about people absolutely taking the piss when it comes to splitting the bill and not speaking up, then they will rock up to the AIBU section and bitterly complain. Grow a bloody spine and speak up at the time, not stew about it later! The German friend isn’t just a breath of fresh air, she is an adult who is open and clear about she wants, something especially more women should aspire to, instead of being conditioned to be ‘nice’ at all costs, even if it means inconveniencing ourselves. Offering a beverage and going on and on about it when someone clearly said no, is irritating. There isn’t a single example given in the OP that actually constitute lack of manners. I feel sorry for this German lady to come across a judgemental and insincere person, she deserves a better friend.

I dunno- who cares if it's 'floral' or whatever. If you are here then try and behave in a way that is generally culturally acceptable.

Ha ha, I knew she'd be German!

I work with Germans and at the start I felt so shocked by what I perceived as their rudeness. Now I understand it's just their way - they say what they mean and it actually is quite refreshing.

I can well believe that the British indirect hints and suggestions can be seen as a bit shifty. Makes a lot of sense, especially when you see a true master at work “oh now I would have always made a pot of tea to go with cake, it can be refreshing to enjoy cake on its own can’t it?”

Also the tea obsession must fail to translate. In Office’s outside Britain is there disbelief at the tea situation? I know tea in China and India is a huge thing, I mean the obsession with the right tea bag and mug and the hourly drinking.

DH is Dutch and we have a German Au Pair, so directness is the norm in this house.

One good thing is if you get a compliment you you know its genuine. So a remark about how nice your meal was is really meant rather than chit chat to be polite.

They see a lot of small talk as being insincere, and smarmy a bit like we perceive the over the top "Have a nice Day" stereotypes of American salesmen.

Eeek, OP, I missed your update. Well, I am glad you were open with her. There is a great chance to gain a very loyal and warm-hearted friend.

This made me laugh, OP sounds like your social expectations are stuck in the 1950s 😂
*Doesn't stand and greet at the door
This is nuts, stop being so stuffy and relax, your friend sounds great.

It's just a cultural difference. I'm not from the UK either and I've had a few people thinking I'm rude/too direct.

It's interesting to think that some cultures must be particularly difficult to navigate with autism. We have a whole social language that involves going round the houses to get to the point whilst avoiding any potential for upset and leaving open opportunities to completely backtrack.

I also thought 'is she German?' straight away. I have a couple of German friends and a South African one and they are very similar. It's very un-British but she will probably be a lovely friend - once you get past the brusque-ness you'll find you don't get the BS you can with others.

Well, to walk off after you open the door is actually a sign of trust.
I do this, too, (yes, German) - but not with everyone.

And there are levels of directness - when I went from the Ruhr to Berlin I thought people to be really aggressive and rude. They weren't.
And I very often delete posts, because I am not sure of getting it culturally right (i.e. being indirect enough).
But there is of course a difference between being direct and being rude, but that has to be judged within the same frame of reference.

Another thing - when I suddenly turn to be correct, speaking High German and using formal grammar - in effect distancing myself. I am angry / insulted / pissed off.

Re the mention of autism further up the thread - I wonder if it is less obvious in countries where people are more direct and "black and white" in the way they communicate?

@LoniceraJaponica
No, having an autistic DS, DN and other family members, it is very obvious. Perhaps, having the extra layer of formality markers (Sie vs Du etc.) it is sometimes easier to stay within the correct framework because it is marked externally.
(I hope my meaning is clear?!)

You would hate me I literally say it how it is!! (I'm an Aspie)

I had a very clear chat with her this morning about British customs. She said it's all very 'floral' (whatever that means), and unnecessary in a world already full of complications.

She's not wrong. The whole, saying 'how are you?' but not actually wanting more than a one word answer is a ridiculously British thing and no wonder people find it hard to talk about MH when we generally don't want to hear anything important.

"floral" = "blumig" - full of decorations.
Everybody who has been socialized within the framework knows how to handle it, everything is clear to them. If you are thrown into it from the sidelines, it is confusing and difficult to manoever.
And let somebody be a more straightforward and literal person from the start and clashes are programmed to happen.
(From a linguistic point of view this is absolutely fascinating.)

My first thought was "she's not British" I have a close work colleague from eastern Europe, she's been here over ten years but still struggles sometimes with being too direct in her comments ...

Ahhh she is German! That’s totally a cultural thing OP, they just don’t do small talk or the British dancing round the point thing! When you translate from German to English it can seem harsh (we would say, “tomorrow I thought it would be lovely to visit that famous landmark if you feel up to it?” They would say “tomorrow we shall go to famous landmark” and that’s it) 😂 the down side is (I manage large teams of people) that brits just don’t get it and sometimes make no allowances at all for the difference so it can lead to issues.

I’m so sorry, I missed your update there OP! Glad it’s sorted.