BIL- I say this is a problem - DH gets interesting set with me and denies its wrong

[AlwaysTheLastToKnow]

Dh’s Family have huge issues. After ten years of putting up with bullying and lies I stood up to my PIL and told my H I’d leave him if he didn’t support me and the kids and so we went no contact (there’s a big back story as to why I’m wary of his brother but he’s the only family member on my Dh’s side that sees the kids)

BIL- is single(never had a GF, very wealthy and socially a bit awkward. (I have a SN child who can struggle socially) he treats the kids like they are 3, insists on touching them
Constantly (they hate this and always have) I’ve tried gently telling him not to do it and when they say NO he must respect this but he ignores it. I’ve been more firm and told him he will ruin any relationships with them if he continues (he’s good for 30 minutes then back to type)

He comes overly twice a month and the kids will make any excuses they can (seeing friends-sports stuff-being I’ll) dh will not listen

And I’m sick of it.

I don’t think any uncle has free reign to barge into their bedrooms and wrestle them on their beds. I don’t think he should grab them in between the crotch to lift them up. Moreover the kids tell him to stop and visibly don’t want him near.

It’s causing an issue because I’m supporting the children and my dh says “that’s just how he is they’ve got to be polite to him”

Errr- no. This is totally at odds with everything I’ve taught the dc about their space and their bodies and how they should be respected by anyone when they say no.

I’m at the stage now where I’m planning stuff to clash with the visits

Kids are 9,12,15

Every time he comes over you need to get your children into the car and remove them from him.
What would happen if you told your husband not to let DB into the house again?

OP this is what grooming is. He hasn't just groomed the kids into accepting his touch, he's groomed his brother into enforcing the kids' acceptance, and he's groomed you. weird man is touching your children's genitals. Why haven't you called the police?

Totally inappropriate behaviour. Can you say those words op? Say them when banning bil from your house, your dh can go to his or meet elsewhere. Totally inappropriate behaviour, and a good reason to deny staying access to dad if you split, he can visit under your supervision. Kids will vote with their feet anyway. It's not safe, protect them.

So I leave their dad over it and creepy BIL has weekly access with me nowhere to be seen? Dh is a lazy man parent wise- I guarantee they’d be made spend more time with him.
That’s not going to happen. You make it a condition of visitation that BIL must never be with them. If he breaks it once, you stop visitation. Your kids will be quick enough to tell you. It’s a poor excuse for letting the situation continue.

If you don’t want to leave your OH, at the very least tell him BIL must never come to your house or be near your children. He can see his brother anywhere.

This man is abusing your children and you seem unwilling to do all you can to stop it.

Should you separate, at 9, 12 and 15 your kids would get some say in visitation and wouldn’t have to visit their dad when bil was around if they didn’t want to. So it could be a very effective way of keeping their uncle from harming them.

If the thought of the social services and the police doesn't bother you, think about your children coming to you in, say, 10 years' time, suffering from depression, chronic anxiety, eating disorders, etc (a totally realistic scenario, given what you have described here) and them asking you "Mum, why didn't you protect us?"

"I tried but that's just the way (BIL) is" is not going to cut it.

And I don't care whether you are offended or not. Brekkie and many other people here are right: you are enabling this.

These threads are always so sad. The OP always just sticks their fingers in their ears and whines about being put in this position.

You're a mother- act like it and protect your children.

The 15 year old must be female. It would be too painful for a 15 year old boy to be lifted up by his genitals.

Ugh. Poor girl. I really hope she confides in a teacher and gets some help.

OP, I agree with the other posters that this is seriously inappropriate behaviour.

Your DH needs to see that it's serious enough that you've even contemplated whether leaving him would be justified.

The children have every right to expect that their bodily autonomy be respected, and that they are free from abuse.

BIL needs to stay away, your DH can see him elsewhere.

I think OP has disappeared- I really hope this isn’t true.

Op hasn’t posted in two hours. I’m actually not clear exactly how the bil picks the kids up. He slides his arm between their legs, is that right? So not exactly touching genital per se. Perhaps perhaps not. But wildly inappropriate.

@Mummyoflittledragon I assume it's how I do some of the toddler/baby holds in classes to swing them? Put one arm across their chest under their arms and the other hand between their legs to support their lower body, swinging them forwards with me turned to the side and them going chest first. Not really any other way to swing them about while keeping them safe. I wouldn't do it to a child above a toddler though, they would be way too heavy and I would have no need to ever do that for any other reason.

Also your DC shouldn't have to see him if you separate. They can choose to see their father or not, and if creepy uncle is there they will tell you and you will refuse visitation and explain exactly why. I doubt that the courts would insist that your DC be in contact with someone who touches them so inappropriately.

So the DCs are 9, 12 and 15, you've known his perverted behaviour has been going on all that time yet nothing much has been done other than telling your DH.
Ffs don't put bolts or locks on the inside of their bedroom doors - what the hell would you do if he locks himself in the room with one or more of your DCs?
And why on earth should they be having to shut themselves away to avoid this pervert/potential (or actual) paedophile?
I would tell your DH you're reporting him to the NSPCC and police as he seems unable/unwilling to accept what's going on.
Please don't leave it until it escalates or another 15 years pass.

I work in a school and sometimes children make disclosures to me or my colleagues. If any child told any of us about this, we would immediately write a safeguarding concern report. I also know from experience, that the report would be acted upon very quickly - last time I did one, the HT came and spoke to me within minutes of me hitting the send button and ss were in school within a couple of hours. And that incident did not involve anything that could be done sexual abuse.
The thing is, OP, if something similar happened with any of your children, how do you think it will look that neither you not Dh have actually stopped this happening?

I agree that locks aren't a permanent solution.

But my suggestion of locks was more to make a huge point to the DH....telling him that he can't have the key because he can't be trusted to protect his own children AND to show how egregious I think his brother's behaviour is. I'd hope that would be a real wake up call. And obvs the locks would be for the children to use to lock themselves in, not for me to lock them in.

Obvs the behaviour needs to be stopped. But it's also obvs that the BiL won't stop when the OP tells him to. Maybe if his own brother would take a stand it would be different. If he won't then a 'grand gesture' needs to be made, whether that's locks or calling the authorities.

Even if the BiL is not a bona fide pervert , he has bou daries issues - if chikdren say “no”, he should respect that. I’d be avoiding him like a plague.

He is sexually assaulting your children

If he were to touch you in such a way what would you be thinking ?

He is assaulting your kids under your very noses and your DH is ok with this. This is horrific. And it is assault, he is touching them and 'play fighting' with them without their consent when they have told him to stop. If he did this to an adult he'd get thumped or arrested. Your poor kids cannot do this so you and DH need to step up and protect them. NOW.

DH brother should not have access to them AT ALL. And if your DH will not get on board with this you need to report to school, social services, police as appropriate to help you protect them.

It's scary that your DH doesn't see the problem.

When you watch something like "abducted in plain sight" you think, it's obvious, surely the parents know what's going on!

I'm really concerned by the number of pp saying to put locks on doors, go for long walks when the uncle pops over etcTHIS IS NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM THAT HE IS SEXUALLY ABUSIVE

You are spot on OlennasWimple

I'm getting boring now but as a foster carer for 25 plus years I so agree with you. I have tried to make your points also, because I have personally dealt with children in care for whom this has happened. I can of course only talk from my experience, but I'm afraid I believe that a lock on the door/shouting out will not be enough to placate social services when one of the children innocently tells someone of this. As I said in my last post, doing something physical like a lock will mean social services realise you knew of the inappropriate behaviour and did not report it. Instead resorting to short term measures that do NOTHING to protect your children other than in the very short term. And sadly a lock on a door does not help the emotional problems that the children could be going through.

I cannot keep on, sorry if I am, just I've been there, dealt with the children and know what can and does happen.

This has to stop. Ask your dh how he would feel if a stranger wrestled with your kids or touched their crotches. It's completely inappropriate. Being their uncle doesn't give him free reign over their bodies. To be clear grabbing anyone's crotch is a sexual assault.

mayflower43.You make good sense .OP please read her post several times

Thank you greentulips. I have looked after three little boys who were taken into care on a permenant basis because their parents thought a lock on their bedroom door was enough to protect them from an abusive older relative who they still allowed to visit their home.

x-posted with Oleannas and Mayflower, same conclusion, and maybe it needs shouting.

It does LittlePaintBox yes. I am getting quite stressed trying to think of a better way to get this across to the OP - locks, walks, shouting are not enough and certainly will not be enough should social services get involved. It will actually work against the parents as by doing these things, as it proves they were aware of the problem, but made these practical changes in order to avoid dealing with the main issue.

If the thought of the social services and the police doesn't bother you, think about your children coming to you in, say, 10 years' time, suffering from depression, chronic anxiety, eating disorders, etc (a totally realistic scenario, given what you have described here) and them asking you "Mum, why didn't you protect us?"

You are SO right, SO right. I have been a foster carer for long enough for children I have cared for to be in their mid to late 20s now. I would say the majority have some emotional issues in adulthood from their past BUT (and this surprised me at first) their anger and hatred (not too strong a word) is almost always directed at the parent who knew and did not protect them rather than the abuser themselves. Not always, but almost always.

This doesn’t sound explicitly sexually abusive. I’m in my 40’s now but had an uncle who was like this. Until I was about 15 he’d pick me up by putting one arm under my armpits and the other between my legs and swing me round .It’s a move I see my teenage son doing to his 3 year old nephew now.

The difference is that I’d repeatedly said I didn’t like it and my uncle and parents ignored my wishes and told me to stop being a grump. When my son does it he asks first (actually my nephew often asks “can you swing me”)
It’s jot the action that’s dodgy, it’s the fact he (and seemingly your dh) don’t get the concept of bodily autonomy.

My uncle stopped when I kneed him in the balls. Not hard but repeatedly. And he told me to stop and I didn’t. And my dad dragged me off him and asked me what I thought was doing and I said I thought it was a family tradition that we could do what we liked to other people- you’ve never stopped him hurting me. It got through to them (sort of, they still think I’m weird for insisting on bodily autonomy for me and my kids)