Has anyone got all normal children?

[CandyPuff]

I have 2. The first one is so easy going. She's a teenager and she's lovely company. She always has been. Full of life and adventure, enthusiastic, chatty

The second one has mental health issues, is anxious. She is argumentative and stubborn. She doesn't want to do anything and wants everything her own way. She doesn't compromise and screams and shouts ALOT.

I don't know what I did wrong with her? She is so hard to parent and she worries and upsets me

I think you have just had enough worry and stress for now and just want some answers. I feel for you. My children are NT children (although I have wondered about one of them when they were younger) however, one of them now has diabetes which is a really difficult to manage health problem. Whether they are considered normal I don’t know. I guess not as it is hard work and a constant worry and restricts their ability to do stuff.

I know its hard. you must feel so tired and so scared.
what shes going through is so difficult to understand and it can frustrate both you and her to the point of your skin boiling!
has she had any talking therapy.do you know if there was a trigger for them?
is she ever able to talk to you about what she think will happen if she doesn't put thing in their right order or touch a certain amount of times?
one very helpful line here was..."thoughts not facts" to remember that this is an illness what she has it isn't her.so try and help her and you keep them separate.this isn't her fault.shes not to blame she has an illness.like cancer or stroke or a broken leg its an illness. no shame or guilt or any badness in her causes this to happen.and like other illness we work on finding how we can live or and treat them.
that might involve mindfulness.talking therapy. or it might involve for now just doing what you can when you can.
sometimes she might really want to go out and not be able to say.and there is a short window of bravery where you can pursaud eher and ts impossible to know when that line is crossed!

another thing that helped us was this.
so if your head tells you your a pink banana do you believe it?
would you think it true?
so does every thought about dying or ocd or order or rituals or herself mean it true.or could it be a thought.thought not facts.
if shes not a pink banana why is she bad,dirty.should die etc??
it can really help just take those horrible thought down a notch.to see its a thought.brought on by an illness but it doesn't have to be followed or true.

there are loads of breathing and exercise to help withthis too.
like bodyscan
imagineing her bad thoughts on clouds.so throughout the day there are so many clouds going through the sky and just like thoughts we can hold on and keep up with them all so why would we put ourself through trying?so the bad thoughts.we don't need to hold on or follow all of them.we can just let them go...let them pass.
it sound a bit namby pamby to some but here its been some mini life savers like this this has borught her back from the edge.

I did not say I found the word normal to be offensive, I said I found it hurtful.
When I’ve had sneers of that child is not normal then yes this whole idea of “normality” causes strong reactions.

Parenting a child with additional needs is hard fucking work at times though-and you have my sympathy there. You’ve had lots of good advice so I won’t repeat any of it.

Can't really understand why you didn't want to change the thread title, when so many posters have told you why they find it offensive? For that reason I'm out.

Because she didn't want to be bullied out of saying how she really feels?

My dd is NT. She has some sensory processing disorder traits. It’s mild these days and I suppose it was never major even though it made her controlling over certain things. She has a medical condition, which if triggered is pretty shit for her as she’s then unable to talk / move for quite some time and is ill for a couple of days. So she will not have the freedom of typical teens to go and get pissed for example as this could trigger it. She also is overweight, not big time obese or anything.

We did see a child psychologist when she was 5 because of the control issues and it helped loads. She stopped developing emotionally when she started school as she realised just how ill I am. She managed this by controlling her environment and me (I was too ill to fight back). The CP got her to the correct place emotionally and taught us both coping strategies and me a different way to parent. My dd is 10 and I think without the intervention 5 years ago things would be looking a lot different now.

To the outside world she may seem very “normal” and she is really whafevee that means despite lacking in some coping strategies, which a lot of children her age will have by her age. For example she sleeps in my bed still. I am sure that will change in secondary.

I’m realy sorry you and your dd are struggling so much. That sounds very tough. I agree with others about getting an assessment.

Crunchymum did you realise just quote Dragons Den? Seriously! I don't know why some posters feel the need to be so superior and crass towards someone in need of help under the guise of taking offence. I wish MN would crack down on it much more, it's horrible.

For goodness sake all you vipers having a go at the OP, I get asked if I want a "normal" coffee sometimes, or when in a supermarket looking for milk "is it normal milk you are looking for"

It's a word that is mis-used. I think the OP mis-used it but STOP giving her a hard time.

Define "normal."

Both my children have SN, this is apparently not "normal", mind you I have never felt as if I fit in with anyone else and I don't have SN.

Personally I find the term "normal" as used with people unhelpful. Tbf it's not that helpful when used with coffee...

People could really benefit from thinking of ‘normal’ in the bell-shaped curve sense, saving themselves a lot of offence-taking.

Op, it could well be asc however going back to the "hearing voices" when she was younger was how my dd described hearing her ocd telling her to act out her compulsions. The "dirty cup" sounds familiar too. This book was massively helpful. She now has it completely under control.
You can also buy books for the kids themselves to read.

Fishwifecalling we had that here too.to the point she thought she was going mad.

1 in 3 people experience MH issues in their lives so your child is certainly not abnormal just a little more complex. The great thing is the modern medicine is able go detect a huge amount of 'issues' before they do or don't become anything. You sound like a bit of a lazy parent where anything less than total ease and compliance is abnormal. No wonder one of your DCs has MH issues living in that household. You've set up a scape goat vs golden child dynamic.

DD is 6 months and weve been shunt from department by the hospital for various checks most of which have turned out to be nothing but do you know what? She isn't abnormal or difficult, she's just a baby and I don't resent her having health issues because they aren't her fault. Also most adults have at least one going health condition so the idea that anything less than perfection in a child is faulty is ridiculous. Your title is horribly offensive. Please seek counselling to try to look at why you resent one of your children enough to even write that.

My sister is the normal one, she is outgoing and pretty. She has always had friends and a never seems to struggle. I am the opposite, I've had mental health issues since the age of eight. I'm 31 and still unwell a lot the time. Your description of DD2 is very close to me as a teen. Has she seen a doctor?

blackcat86 I think you actually need the counselling to work out why you need to personally insult someone who is upset and needs help. Declaring you're "offended" does not give you the right to bully others.

Thanks for the book recommendation fishwife, really interesting that you and kateandme have experienced this.

I'm really glad I started this thread. I am grateful to people sharing their experiences. I felt like we were at a dead end. But this has given me ideas. I am definitely going to persue an ASC assessment.

Some people have suggested tools/exercises/books etc for HER. I haven't been able to get her to do anything to help herself at all. It's an achievement to get her to shower, brush teeth etc. But I'm going to focus on that for a bit. Ultimately improvement has to come from her doesn't it

She has seen a doctor raven. She was referred to CAHMS but she doesn't meet threshold (?!?!.!??!) I am accessing counseling for her elsewhere. But I am going to go back. The referral letter didn't convey the extremity of her and I think that is why she was rejected

Wrong thread blackcat

Another thought candy
one thing at a time. It's tempting to try to tackle all the behaviours prompting friction but it is more effective if you can be patient and deal with one thing at a time eg. week 1: phone use, week 2: eating habits.... and so on. Padded out with lots of praise and encouragement.

I KNOW IT'S HARD

She has seen a doctor raven. She was referred to CAHMS but she doesn't meet threshold (?!?!.!??!)

This happened to us too. Eventually I went to talk to school, even though she is well behaved at school, and told the about all her issues and how anxious she is (she hates going to school and it's a nightmare to get her there, then manages while she's there). They did a report and referral and combined with the fact that I'd approached GP before, she did get seen. Now on a long waiting list but at least there's some help coming.

If your DD school refuses, they must know something's very wrong - is there a learning support teacher or educational psych you can ask to help refer again?

brink yes, school know about all of it. It was school that gave her counseling. But the Ed Sych is in high demand and she has had her 'quota'.its shit really. The classroom teachers seem clueless about anxiety and have some things that have made it worse. SLT and SENCO 'get it's but it doesn't translate into anything useful for DD which is long term. She just gets short term support...like being taken out of class for an hour to work on self esteem with SLT member. It helped tremendously But it was ad-hoc and only happened 3 or 4 times. She is well behaved and compliant once in school, so I suppose she isn't a priority. They are just too busy. I want to send her to the local private school where the class sizes are much smaller and they have alot more variety/activities. She's in a poorly performing state school with alot of kids with alot of issues/trauma. She would easily pass entrance exams, she is academically brilliant

I totally get where you're coming from with your opening post.

Before having kids, I had an idea of what 'normal' was, and always assumed any children I had would fit in to that. You know, like the glossy 2D children you see on tv shows.

I've found parenting really, really hard. I don't think I'm very good at it. I find my children challenging, which makes me think I'm doing a shit job.

One of my children has diagnosed autism, the other has just been referred too.

So maybe I'm not that shit, maybe I just struggle because they are not 'normal'? Maybe I'm constantly exhausted because I'm always dancing around managing their behaviour, heading off a meltdown before it can start.

I do wonder sometimes, what would it be like to have 2 children without autism? My two are high functioning, although the younger has a learning delay too. So they look absolutely normal on first sight, they go to mainstream school, older one has hobbies and friends etc, so to an outsider they look normal so they might just think they're badly behaved or spoilt or just massive twats 🤷‍♀️ I don't know.

I love my children dearly but I worry for their futures, and wish they'd been dealt a less shitty hand. I know its unhealthy but I'm bitterly jealous of people with 'normal' children.

The classroom teachers seem clueless about anxiety and have some things that have made it worse.

Oh god tell me about it. We have great support from the SLT and learning support AND Ed Psych but no one can do anything about the unsympathetic class teacher. Can't wait till she's out of DD's hair.

Do tell me to shut up OP but I would still push school for another CAMHS referral. Squeaky wheel and all that. Your DD's case sounds at least as severe as my DD's.

Please don’t tar all teachers with the same brush. I totally get anxiety and mental health needs. I suffer from them. Also remember that they have around 29 other children that they have to give their time and attention to as well. Many of them will be struggling with their own needs as well. We teachers are stretched pretty thin.

Interesting how many of those with children with health issues have no problem whatsoever with the term “normal”.

Bigger concerns to be bogged down in trivial shit as to whether “normal” is the correct terminology to be used by a desperate parent of a child with serious MH issues.