I’m yet to meet a leaver

[ScafellPoke]

Or have I but they’re just too ashamed to admit it?

surferjet

Yes, I was just about to say that...I find the aggressive rhetoric from many liberals to be really concerning. It cannot be healthy that people are afraid to admit how they voted or indeed vote more generally for fear of being labelled racist, selfish, bad people. Add to this the feelings around various other issues... people being no platformed, afraid to speak out. It's scary times imo.

No, not sinister. Just the ability to analyse and take note of what responsible industry, civil servants, diplomats, haulage, agri-businesses, financial markets etc are saying, with no motivation to pretend otherwise. The expense and job losses, and social division, the raising of another period of deaths and destruction on the island of Ireland, the rise of racists attacks, the actions of brexiters removing their wealth and assets from the UK whilst trumpeting "it will all be fine."

I mean, how thick do you have to be?

So no, not sinister. Just

in some ways inexplicable.

I know one. She's a lovely lady but very Christian. She was driven to believing we'd be inundated by Muslims from Turkey 🤔. She's changed her mind now.

Hold on windows. The country is in a mess because our politicians are so busy wrangling for power amongst themselves and attempting to undermine the democratic process, that they are not doing their jobs.
I read somewhere that the EU were willing to investigate technological solutions to the Irish border situation but TM wouldn't engage. I hope that isn't true.

I voted to leave. My dh voted to leave. We are both educated with degrees and post grad qualifications. Both our families voted to leave including my two adult children also well educated with degrees. We live in a leave voting area. Why? Because we are fed up of the inequality of the EU. Only 5 countries pay in more than they pay out. The UK is one of them. Every other country takes out more than it pays in. The EU dictates what we spend money taken out on. The EU waste so much money. Every month they go to Strasberg for just four days, the sheer cost of moving everything and everyone from Brussels and paying all travel cost for all employees is mind blowing and all for political reasons not any other reason. Junkers excessive spending on wine costing over £250 a bottle for his banquets etc. I just think of all of the cuts we have to make in our country and believe we could do so much better with the money than the EU do with it. I know an old lady who is nearly blind but is denied a home help because of lack of money when we are sending billions to the EU every year. If we were to stay in we would have to send even more next year as our economy has grown and German, Spanish and French has shrunk. The EU sells more goods to us than we sell to them. Over last 7 years we are now selling more to other countries out of EU. Most economist state we would be better to leave on WTO terms and take up to 10 years to secure deals around world. I am not racist. I rent property to both Polish and Romanians. My husband employs people of several races. We have friends of different races. For us immigration should be controlled fairly and so we should admit people on merit and skills set not purely on where they originate form, which to us seems the racist policy. Many small to medium businesses are held back by excessive EU legislation. We would like to see a fair simple trade deal but not backstop but do not fear leaving with no deal. Most of the countries we trade with through EU have said they wish to continue trading with UK with or without a deal with EU. Fox has already set up 6 trade deals for March 29th 2019 and Australia and Canada have said they will fast track a deal with UK. Trump has said he wants to do trade deal with UK for goods and services. The EU is a failing entity, look at problems in Italy and riots in Paris every weekend. The German economy only missed recession by a whisker meaning they will have to pay in much less next year. Who will be expected to make up shortfall? We need to be more outward looking and trade around the world. We need to be out of SM and CU in order to be allowed to do free trade deals with other countries either not in EU or who do not trade with EU. EU make nasty and ridiculous statements about UK which is not statesman like. If you want to keep people in your club you should not bully them.

All lovely @caringcarer - but I can only respect that if you are against no Deal. I am content to leave like a grown up under WA but I will never support No Deal.
In a binary choice between WA and No Deal, I support WA.

That was the issue I have with the EU too caring. That all parties have the same say and the same seat at the table despite their own countries not only being net beneficiaries but being in a much poorer social/economic position than the U.K., France, Germany etc. In the end it wasn’t enough for me to vote leave as overall I feel the benefits of being in the EU outweighed my concerns but I see where you’re coming from.

"Inside Europe", a three parter currently available on the BBC iPlayer is a real eye opener to how the EU works, if anyone has 3 spare hours

If we no deal and it is as shit as expected by leaving in that way, I will blame anyone who supported No Deal. If we leave via WA, I will "suck it up" and get on with my life. As I am being urged to do by all Leavers. But No Deal? You can fuck off.

@bellinisurge I don't think anyone really wants a no deal situation at all!

I Voted to leave, not a to leave without a deal.

That's fine @GemmaXOX . But we are where we are. It is a binary choice. And if you don't choose WA, we either no Deal or Revoke/Remain. So which is it?

Why is everybody criticising liberals?

We are told people from all ages and social groups supported Brexit but not liberals apparently.

And if it is wrong to demonising groups of people why is pointing out that Brexit supporters are similar to a cult is wrong but it is ok to demonise liberals? Many conservatives oppose Brexit are they part of this 'liberal' conspiracy?

caringcarer I find your post difficult to read due to the lack of paragraphs, I understand formatting can be an issue on some devices. One point you did make I just think of all of the cuts we have to make in our country and believe we could do so much better with the money than the EU do with it

You must know by now that the cuts are the result of government policy and not the EU. If you are informed you must be aware of this so why continue to make the point?

The leavers in my extended family often share Britain First style posts on fb.

They aren’t racist though .

Caringcarer I found your post perfectly easy to read despite lack of paragraphs. You make some very good points.

Most economists consider leaving on WTO terms would be good.

Really? Outside of Minford economists are generally shaking heads in wonder. " Why is a country for the first time ever actually choosing to make themselves poorer with no arguable reason as to why?"

Windows HM Forces are always on stand by; it's what they do.

Politics is a mess in other EU countries as well, certainly in Spain and Italy. Macron isn't doing too well in France either.

Not all companies are 'fighting to leave' the UK. When are Amazon, Sky and Starbucks going? JCB seem to be staying as well

If by 'our Irish neighbours' you mean the ROI, then look at Varadker. Kenny had groups going between Dublin and Westminster to work through the issues Brexit would throw up, but Varadker cancelled them all. The ROI is doing what it wants, as is the UK.

If you mean NI, the Troubles weren't solely of British making iirc?

What kind of Brexit to have? Well, had the backstop not been in the WA, and the supposition that the CU would be the basis for any Trade Agreement, then the WA might have got through. Had the PM put preparations in place for no deal from the time she sent in the A50 letter, then the EU might have taken her a bit more seriously. Had the House not voted overwhelmingly to honour the result of the referendum, then reneged on that commitment, who knows where we would be?

The EU has form for deals at the very last second. It's a case of holding your nerve.

I really don't think the world is 'watching in horror', and I am outside the UK. Brexit is hardly Syria.

Voting remain wasn't voting for a predictable outcome either, so please tell me where the UK would be in 10/20/50 years had the vote been to remain? At what point, given moves to QMV and the death of the veto, would enough be enough? Conscription into the EU Armed Forces for your kids? Having to adopt the Euro? Direct taxation by the EU? Changes to Inheritance laws so they are the same throughout Europe, so you no longer can leave your estate as you wish?

There is a book called How To Lose A Referendum. Excellent book. Explains the many reasons, rightly or wrongly, people voted to leave the EU

out of curiosity, is anyone in mainland Europe stockpiling medicine food and other goods for when we leave?

"the Troubles weren't solely of British making"
LMFAO at that one.

tbf if they hadn’t let themselves be colonised would we be in this position

I kid- it’s some bare faced cheek to colonise a place and then claim it takes two to tango

Windowsareforcheaters

I would say the vast majority of people on social media calling leavers ignorant racists would identify as left wing/ liberal.

Wouldn’t you agree?

I've met very few remainers. Those that I have met are all very young with very idealistic views through little political life experience.

You can try and make yourself out to be a victim as much as you want but I don't recall violence and intimidation being used against Leave supporters. Or is that fake news

Hi @user1497787065 , I'm old. My late Mum was even older. More life experiences than you can shake a stick at. Voted Remain. Both of us old biddies.