What plans do you have for your old age? Do you expect your children to be involved as carers?

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

I know it sounds like a journalisty question, but honestly it's not! I'm just a regular Mumsnetter.

My plans for my old age very emphatically include not relying on my children (who will hopefully be parents of youngish adults or teens by the time I get there) to look after me or worry about me or support me in any way.

If I'm lucky enough to get there, I expect to be living in sheltered accommodation by the time I'm 80. I plan to save enough for private carers if/when I need them, but if that can't be done, then I'll go and live in a nursing home without making my children feel guilty about it!

I had my children quite late (as my mother had me - she was 31! but old at the time) so I am aware they could be in the sandwich generation and I just don't want any extra on their shoulders.

Bestseller you are right, it isn't straightforward - this is interesting:

features.dignityindying.org.uk/true-cost-dignitas/

Tinkly I think that's what we all fear

Dignitas sounds so straightforward, but what time is the right time

It's a good question. I guess I am hoping I will know. Physically it will be when things become a struggle for me. When I start needing someone to do everyday tasks. Or when I'm in a lot of pain, in that it starts to outweigh the plus points of being alive. Mentally, is more tricky. In that regard I think I will be somewhat reliant on my DC's telling me there's an issue. Or it may simply come to an overall tiredness of life! In reality that may be the point I hit first! My life is pretty good right now but I've had some real low points that very nearly broke me. At those points I fought the impulse to die, only really because of my DC, but it's likely there will come a time where I don't feel the need to fight any more.

DH and I definitely won't allow our DC to care for us - perish the thought! I read posts on MN about demanding, self-centred, needy elderly parents and feel angry on the behalf of the posters lumbered with such selfish people. We've got plenty of savings and we'll move into somewhere smaller and with a warden/nursing care when/if the time comes. And, like many others, I sincerely hope that euthanasia will be an option for our generation if that's how we wish to go. I have no desire to linger on in poor health when all quality of life is gone. I'd much rather choose my time to go.

I have no idea as I don't know what care and support I will need. I could be living at home age 95 just needing some support to cut my toenails and get some shopping or I could incontinent of urine and faeces age 70 smacking anyone in the face who dares to try and help me change my clothes.

My children are still young but I hope to talk to them about the future and how nothing is expected of them. I will also have POA and will look into advanced care planning, although these would need to be amended if I was diagnosed with different illnesses as care would look very different.

I don't expect them to care for me but I have suggested a granny flat at each house and I'll pay for the carers . I said they'll probably get more inheritance that way.

We're currently in this situation now with ~MIL she refuses help from outside and cries when it's suggested. She has never been a manipulative type but she is certainly learning the ropes fast and no one wants to upset her.
What to do? - Switzerland is definitely an option - keeping me alive and probably in pain is not something I want. We plan to move into sheltered accommodation around 75 years old...have told the kids if they want the inheritance they'll have to work for it by seeing after us or it will be spent on care, they have both said get the care! Wise choice!

My Grandma was still in her house managing very well on her own until she was 98, and she died quite soon after being moved into a home. My parents are 77 now, both in exceptionally good health, and still looking after their large house and garden again very well. I can't imagine either of my parents entertaining the idea of sheltered housing anytime soon, my DF seems to think that the majority of people won't need care, are more likely to die quickly (eg stroke / heart attack) or with hospice care (cancer). I've no idea on the stats on this, so don't know if he's right or not. Or deluded. He's made sufficient provision regardless, as he doesn't want us to have to care for them.

Similarly, I wouldn't want my kids to have to look after me, but when the reality hits of what kind of care is available (for both me and my parents), I don't know if we'll feel the same way. Dignitas is a very real possibility, although I'm not sure on the logistics of it really.

I cared for my mother during her terminal cancer and it was a very special time for both of us, in spite of her illness. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I increasingly think cancer with good pain management is actually not such a bad way to go. It's not as sudden as an accident/stroke/heart attack so you have time to prepare and say goodbye to people, you usually are reasonably compos mentis, you get as much morphine as you need and the state pays for your care. And the decline at the end is pretty fast. There's a world of difference caring for a loved one with cancer who is told they have 6 months to live and caring for someone with a slow decline that could go on for years and that affects their personality.

I increasingly think cancer with good pain management is actually not such a bad way to go. It's not as sudden as an accident/stroke/heart attack so you have time to prepare and say goodbye to people

Hmm, I'm guessing you've never watched someone with cancer die CountFosco? It's pretty grim. I actually haven't either, but my aunt's DH died of cancer, as did my DSis's old school friend and the stuff they told me was distressing enough even at second hand. The final couple of months were horrible in both cases, full of indignity, pain, anguish and dread. For the person dying, the sudden accident/stroke/heart attack or the holy grail - dying in your sleep - is much less cruel.

Property owners should pay for their care from property wealth. That wealth should be collected after their death to allow them to live in their own home.

I would hate my dc to be my carers

If they want to visit one a week once a fortnight or once a month then I’ll be happy
I’d like to be able to help them out and take them out etc

I’m not from the type of background where “inheritance” is a real thing. My parents are the first generation to own their home but we still would never expect any inheritance or “help” for either my generation or my Dcs. All my parents money is for their care, the best they can afford for as long as they can afford it.
They’re still young early 70s and travelling etc but have already had the foresight to sell the family home and move into a managed flat. People said they were “too young” for that move but I think it’s better than being too old to make it independently.

I'll be chucking myself in front of a bus before I allow any of my kids to do much as wipe my mouth with a cloth. I saw MIL (one of eight) and her sisters (not brothers funnily enough) run around for years after her mum whilst maintaining a full time job, and getting no thanks at all. Her youngest sister had 2 small children at home as well, brothers didn't lift a finger. Her mum refused to go in a home, I think it was expected that the girls would "do their bit". I'm not doing it to mine and I'm not doing it for my mum either.

Property owners should pay for their care from property wealth. That wealth should be collected after their death to allow them to live in their own home

This. I hate that property is expected to be handed down. Surely half the point of buying a house is to secure your future?

No kids, so that isn't even an option. I'm still in my 30s, so this is very theoretical to me at this point. Both DH and I have various health issues, but it's not really given whether this will affect how long either one of us lives, or not (statistically, we're less likely to live very old, but that doesn't mean we as individuals might not).

I certainly wouldn't expect my DNs (who'll be my next of kin in my old age if DH dies before me, I guess) to care for me, or be involved in my care. They're unlikely to live anywhere near me, and will have their own lives. (They might have to come and sort my stuff afterwards, and I do feel a bit sorry for them for it... Marie Kondo I am not!)

I'm trying to start saving more, and the aim is to be mortgage free at the very least before retirement age (hopefully sooner, of course). We're not planning on moving up the property ladder, since the kids aren't happening, and realistically even now a small house, a small mortgage, and an easy walk to amenities is great for us. It wouldn't be an easy option for me (I think, with the benefit of being young and capable) to leave my home and move to a care home. I'm a very private person, introverted and have trust issues at the best of times. I think I might prefer to eke things out at home as best I can, and when I can't... call it a day? But that's probably something I can easily change my mind as/if I actually grow old.

Hmm, I'm guessing you've never watched someone with cancer die CountFosco? It's pretty grim.

Actually I have (father, grandmother) as have most people old enough, 1/3 of us get cancer in our lives, and distressing as it is it's not as bad as the long and slow decline of dementia (where you lose the person you love before their body gives up), or your body slowly failing and your life becoming increasingly restricted (there's horrendous physical pain there, for longer as well). Cancer is considered horrendous because some people get it at a young age but in old age I don't think it's the worst way to die, no.

CountFosco Perhaps it depends on the kind of cancer. Secondary tumours in the brain give you dementia symptoms including personality changes as well as memory loss and irritability (which of course pain and fear often also cause), hearing loss etc. Very common to lose continence and independent mobility with late stage cancer or not so late with some forms).

Heart attack in your sleep/ dozing in the sun sounds best to me, but not too young, not too old - it would be great to be able to just decide not to wake up, but obviously the fact we don't get to choose the sweet spot between still enjoying life and having things we are looking forward to, and the point when independence and quality of life is gone is why dignitas appeals.

We are mid 60's and still enjoying life to the full. I think when one of us goes, the remaining one will probably move somewhere smaller, but apart from that, we don't think about it too much. We don't have children.
I really hope that euthanasia eventually becomes legal in this country. I have had 2 close family members die of cancer in recent years. Both expressed a wish to die long before they did. In one case, an attempt was made with the extensive medication supplied (fentanyl and various other things), this was unsuccessful, and the person ended up not being allowed to be in charge of his own drugs. Sheer cruelty. If you treated an animal like that you would be prosecuted, but it is fine to allow a human to suffer so much. Why?
My oh's father has dementia, blindness and deafness at 92. He no longer wants to live. Having seen the state he is in, I think I would like to see myself off before I got to that stage. He no longer really has a life - he is just waiting to die.

I expect to be fine one minute and then drop dead of a heart attack the next. Like the most of my family members. If not I hope to be sound enough of mind to arrange or oay for my own care. I hope not to be a burden on my husband and child (if it is born healthy).

I looked after my mum, but would not let my DS look after me.

My pension plan and long-term care plan is "die early", but hopefully not too early, or before DS is a bit older and relies on me less.

All this Dignitas talk is depressing. Do you really see old people as that much of a burden that they/you should be euthenised rather than being cared for?

Yes.

My Nan spent the last years of her life in a nursing home, incontinent, without a fucking clue who she was or who anyone was. She had not a scrap of happiness left and was angry and aggressive.

Her life was not worth living and it would have been kinder to have ended her life gently rather than feeding and cleaning her and letting her live like that.

We treat old animals with more dignity than we treat humans.

Didn’t they used to call pneumonia the old people’s friend? People having been getting sick and dying a lot longer than we’ve had modern medicine. I really hope I’ll understand that I can’t necessarily have everything the way I want (I’m certainly used to that right now).
When I catch my child sighing and eye rolling they way I see my mum and aunts I’ll know things need to change.

We treat old animals with more dignity than we treat humans.

I agree, which is why I wholeheartedly support good euthanasia legislation being passed in this country. Done right, it will give people some agency over the timing of their death. I don't want to have to go to some sterile clinic in Switzerland and probably go earlier than I'd have liked, simply because I'd have to be fit enough to travel. I'd like to have the choice, if I wanted it, of dying in my own home, surrounded by my things and at the time I chose. So many people want this! There really should be a proper debate about it, one not dominated by religious opinions. This country is becoming more and more secular, so give us the choices we want to have and religion be damned. It's a human right IMO.

We are mid 60's and still enjoying life to the full. I think when one of us goes, the remaining one will probably move somewhere smaller, but apart from that, we don't think about it too much.

I know it is very hard to leave your family home but I think moving to a smaller home in your 60s when you are hopefully still very active and capable and have a lot of life ahead of you is more sensible than waiting until later when you are likely to struggle with it more. MIL has recently been widowed in her 80s, they talked about moving when FIL retired but didn't. Now, although she's fantastic for her age (currently visiting family on the other side of the world), it's very hard to get her to think about leaving her home with all its happy memories. But she can't really afford to maintain it and it's cold. It's going to be a nightmare as she gets frailer (none of us live nearby) and I'm not looking forward to clearing 50+ years of family life when she dies.