"Can't afford to go back to work"

[sphinxa]

Genuine question ...

I often see people saying they couldn't afford to go back to work because of the cost of childcare when they only have 1 child.

The minimum wage is over £7 and the average cost of a nursery is £5/hr. There's tax free child care or vouchers to reduce that cost.

So what do people mean when they say "my wage wouldn't cover childcare costs"?!

When I went back after my 2nd child, I had two under two and after childcare costs I think I came out with about £50 a month. We decided it was still worth going back to work for the benefits of maintaining my own career, pension contributions, autonomy... and eventually when the kids get their free hours we'll be laughing (hopefully).

If people want to stay at home that's great but do people use "can't afford" instead of "want to be a SAHM"?

You need childcare for longer than working hours , easily another hour or two. Plus there are costs of travelling etc .

This is a very sad thought process! This shows how little value is placed in woman or men who chose to raise their own children.

Yes, agreed. I am fully supportive of any mother who wants to work full time, if that is what she feels is best for her family. But the constant belittling of part time workers or sahp as lazy is infuriating.

There are some things in life that no matter how much money you throw at it, you can not buy. Therefore if people find themselves in a situation where they have a child with additional needs, or an elderly relative who needs care, or they just feel that their perfectly typical toddler seems more content when looked after by their own mother, that's not laziness.

I was a sahm for 10 years, we sacrificed having a bigger house, holidays etc but I would do it again in a heartbeat. Childcare would have pretty much eaten up all my salary.
Would I swap all those milestones and wonderful moments for £50 a month? Not a bloody chance!
I'm now working again, picked up where I left off, pension still looks ok and I don't regret my decision for a minute.

There is a lot of discriminations - direct and indirect - that affects whether women can afford to work even with the protections currently in place. The whole 'why can't mothers just return to their jobs' ignores the not insignificant numbers that are pushed out. I suggest googling "Pregnant then Screwed" to see the issues many face of being pushed out of jobs or career paths after becoming pregnant.

And then there are those whose pregnancies result in long-term health problems for the mother or having a disabled child for whom childcare is very difficult to find or whose place of work downsizes or goes bust or ended up caught out in immigration law changes or many other things out of our hands that make it impossible to return -- or that vast majority of people have jobs, not careers to maintain. I think it can be hard for those with one to understand the other.

Yes, for some, the bigger priority of having kids wins out over the issues with maintaining a job or career & it's more desired lifestyle than the financials. My spouse was one of them - he was a SAHP parent for years because how incompatible it was more practical and in a small part financially and then moved into very different work than he was in previously due to wanting more local work with better for him and our family hours. He vastly prefers having a job to a career. He at times has told people he doesn't know well that he couldn't afford to work or to continue in his previous career because he doesn't want to go into the details of it and it is in part true - he couldn't afford it and have the life he wants. For others, it's even more of a stretch just to make ends meet when that average doesn't meet local reality.

It is depressing that so many women are feeling forced to give up work. That men are still out earning women to this degree. That women are trained and skilled but have to lose it all if they want a family

This is no more a woman's problem than a man's.

If you are a woman and wants kids and a career you need to do the same as the men do, we are no different.
Go back to work and expect your men to take a step back, to be the ones who go pt, or become sahp.
You learn to cut your cloth accordingly if the man earns more to begin with, you continue working and build your career.

Well if you include travel and other work related costs it can get very expensive. Working in and of itself costs money, if you add childcare on top then it can often be more than you earn.

I think at one point I was earning very little after childcare costs etc but glad I kept my career going as my kids have grown and Im now in a well paid job with great flexibility. Sometimes you have to look at the long game. Plus unlike some posters I do feel I was there for milestones as I wasn’t at work for 24 hours a day !

As for pension the gov website says I'll qualify for state pension(as if!) in 2053. That's enough years of work left.

I think you need to factor in how much time small children have off nursery. You can't send them in for 48 hours after a sickness. If you are working and have unpaid leave. For a lot of people this would wipe out I imagine any off the negligible amounts they'd earn after all the other travel costs. Plus where I live most the more affordable quality childcare is school based and not for very little ones of the necessary length for working parents.

They don't need cleaners and carers where you live @WeeTinkerMonkey ? Abundance of them needed down here .. yes I'm in the south but it's bastard expensive to live here too. I'm trying to make the point that we can't always choose what we do but I work hard and am always in demand .

yes I'm in the south but it's bastard expensive to live here too. I'm trying to make the point that we can't always choose what we do but I work hard and am always in demand

Aww well how nice for you.

Dundee is running around 10% below the national average employment levels. It's about 60% employed last I looked. Most jobs are expected to be automated within 10 years.

For people to need cleaners, they need jobs, for people to pay cleaners, first they need spare income, no work means no spare income, means no cleaners.

I know it's a bit complex for you to gather and understand there's more to the UK than the small bubble you live in, but try to imagine it as best you can.

I'm considering this at the moment. We worked out that with me working full time as well we are £4 better off a month. I don't think I'll go back after maternity for £4 extra a month.

The increase drug use, anxiety, mental health problems have all declined whilst woman are forced INTO work and thought of as lazy for wanting to make sure their offspring have a decent upbringing surrounded by love and attention

This is one of the most offensive things I’ve ever read on MN!

Pure misogyny.

to make sure their offspring have a decent upbringing surrounded by love and attention

Because obviously working parents don't want their kids to have a decent upbringing surrounded by live and attention. Nope they're being thrown to the wolves and left to fend for themselves.

Some people need to work be it for financial,social,career or mental health reasons.
Some people need to be at home at least for a while for similar reasons.

Most people want a decent upbringing for their kids and most mums regardless of the camp they're in are full of some type of guilt over their choices.

Fuck that.

I am financially supported by my dh and don't work. It works very well for our family. I get lots of time with my dc. When he's home (He works away most of the week) he never has to cook or shop as that's all taken care of. I do 90% if the housework. That means he's free on a weekend (and so am I to a degree) to spend all day with the dc. If i was working we'd have to devote some weekend time to the stuff I get done during the week.

I currently receive U/C. The DWP/Entitled to calculator tells me I would be £260 p/m better off in work. Before childcare.

I've applied to every care setting/supermarket/cleaning agency within walking/cycling distance. All require 'flexibility' and/or a commitment to unsociable hours/weekends.

I've contacted every single child care setting, every childminder within 5 miles (which is as far as either me or my 8 y old can reasonably cycle before and after work). None provide weekend childcare.

My only option is to leave my son with a 'babysitter'. Those who have responded to me, via 'Care.com' ask for £8-10p/h. Ask they are not LA registered, I cannot get any help through U/C. So, each 8 h r weekend shift will leave me £50 out of pocket, as although I'll get no U/C childcare element, the U/C I would still get, because of low wage, will still be reduced by 63%.

It just doesn't work, does it? Not for me, paying to cycle 10 miles plus do an 8 hr physical shift and not for my child, dumped with an unregistered carer.
It doesn't even work for 'the taxpayer' as I'll still get U/C plus childcare help for the days my child is in school wraparound care and holiday clubs, which amounts to almost the exact same as I currently receive.

The only people it works for is those like some PPs who seem to want to see feckless women like me, and burdens on the state, like my child, having as hard a time as possible.l

I have a provisional job offer from a care agency who are sympathetic, and who will let me work p/t during school holidays. They can't budge on the weekends, though. The whole team has to do their share. I have until tomorrow to confirm my interest. I HATE that I can't afford to accept the best job offer I'm realistically likely to get.

MockneyReject

I can symaphise with you, but it isn't worth anything. It's a vile situation to be in.

But don't worry, some dick will pop along to tell you it's your fault and that you should just do what they did.. cause it's dead easy..

Nursery £62/day = £186/week
Travel £50/week
I start earning somewhere around Friday coffee time.

We FORCE women into work and CHILDREN into nurseries - pointless

I don't think paying housing/bills/food/clothes etc is pointless. I'm a single mum, I've always worked. I don't like my job, but it's certainly not pointless. Anyway, I don't understand why SAHPs think nurseries are so bad, children usually enjoy nursery, they socialise and learn there, often more than they do at home.

I wasn't forced back to work. I love working. Dd also loves her childminder so we're all happy. I completely get that for some people it's unaffordable or not worth it to go back to work. I thank my lucky stars that doesn't apply to me because I know I wouldn't be able to cope with being a sahm.

"I don't think paying housing/bills/food/clothes etc is pointless."

^ Has anyone on this thread said that they do?

I don't understand it either. Help with childcare for lower income families is so much better now that when my kids were young. 30hous free childcare at age 3, or up to 85% of childcare costs paid through Universal credit. Me and dh spent years working around each other , me doing nights and weekends for years on end to reduce childcare costs yet nowadays people get so much help !

Babyroobs - Where did you find overnight and weekend childcare, if you don't mind me asking? I am just getting nowhere. It needs to be LA registered in order to get the 'up to 85%'. I
TIA

Pension
Promotion
Extra years of experience, developing knowledge
Being a good role model
Demonstrating a work ethic
Personal fulfilment/growth
Plus an extra £50 a month!

Being a good role model

Why can't SAHP be good role models? Or have a good work ethic if I think about it?