Uk mother found guilty of FGM

[Seaseasea]

Awful story just popped up, first person in the UK to be convicted of FGM poor little girl.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47094707

I'm still amused by circumcision removing gentiles.

Is it education that’s required on the mothers part? Something perhaps health visitors should be discussing with new mums? I don’t know, I just feel like something needs to be done. I’m thinking not just of this girl, but of all the poor girls that have most likely been mutilated in 35 years that have no justice

About time. Dispicable.

Is it education that’s required on the mothers part?

^

This is a long and complicated discussion. It is illegal however and therefore perpetrators should be prosecuted.

Genuine question: why does circumcision (for non medical reasons) not count as MGM?

^^

Because its not the same thing.

Next.

Yes of course they should be prosecuted, I just mean obviously the conviction rates aren’t great. So what further steps can be taken to protect these girls? I knew it was illegal, wasn’t aware until today that their had been no convictions. No convictions = no detterant within the communities it’s taking place in I guess.

Sea

I think that would help but health visitors would have to address with all mothers and explain why.

How does one health visitors quick causal chat over turn ingrained tradition, culture etc.

Ok this blew up

Apologies - that was 100% not my intention.

50% of MN is people asking questions which you can google!

I am very very happy that FGM is being treated so seriously and that this is a clear message to those that may consider it, that it is horrific and they will be punished.

Happy Friday

Fair do's Geoff.

Now if you were to start a thread on how horrible and un necessary circumcision is, I will join you

Yes, education and even just awareness to some degree would help in some cases. I did some work a few years ago with a charity that was working with immigrant women from a couple of communities where FGM was done. Some of them were genuinely so isolated that they didn’t even know this was illegal here. These were usually the women who didn’t speak English, didn’t work outside home, totally out of their depth in a new country with their new husband’s family but not theirs. And many of them had had it done to them in their childhood too. Was awful.

In this case it seemed the mother did know it was illegal, from the BBC article. So education there wouldn’t be on that basic level, but might still have worked if she’d understood how awful this would be for the girl or how it could end up with a jail sentence for her? We won’t know, but I suspect just knowing people have been convicted for it will help bring the rates down.

My son had to be circumcised- why on earth are people pretending there is no difference between fgm and circumcision?

People aren’t that thick are they? What are they really trying to suggest?

For starters Burp, make circumcision doesn’t have different levels. If it might mean more than cutting off the foreskin it might be comparable. So if, when a boy were circumcised it meant he had the tip of his penis removed so to lessen future sexual pleasure then it would be comparable. Male circumcision when not medically needed is not nice, it’s wrong because it is unnecessary but it’s not like he’s been castrated.

Go read up on FGM.

Sorry the start of that post is a bit jumbled.

Sea I think... The other conviction came when a girl went to her doctors and confided what was going to happen to her? She said.. I think her mother had backed out but the community was putting pressure on the family.. As it was time for her to be married and on the market... And they said no one would want her if she wasn't done...

It really is down to education etc...

Whistle blowers maybe... But the very nature of it, for young girls to tell on the thier parents which is the only way really.... Would be beyond hard to do. We want to belive our parents love us.

Without being too pessimistic unless we eradicated all faith schools and drummed this in, maybe when sex education starts... I don't see how we can begin to combat it.

What "other conviction" ?

Red, please go and read up about the many accidents leading to men being unable to enjoy sex it removes sensitivity, it can lead to bladder issues and all sorts.

Go and read about the charities and movements all over the world started to try and stop circumcision.
Many medics belive it should only ever ever be done for medical reasons. Never ever for cultural or religious reasons.
Go and read about the babies who have bled to death from botched circumcision and the babies who have had damaged penis from it.

That poor girl.

I think the reason why no one has yet been convicted is because of the difficulty in gathering evidence.

Families often take the girls abroad to get it done, possibly during school holidays and it may not be discovered until they are women and at hospital to have babies. By this time the focus is on giving the women the care that they need rather than tracing perpetrators who may never be identified.

Schools are doing lots of work in this area. We had to develop a policy on it both around raising awareness during PSHE lessons but also in giving staff a framework of looking out for girls who were absent around school holidays or who appeared to be in pain or discomfort on return.

Hopefully this mother will get a tough sentence that might at least raise the profile.

Loss of sensitivity during sex
Inability to conceive
Inability to give birth vaginally
Inability to urinate normally
Ongoing wound infection

These are just a few.

And these are just physical.
We can go into psychological if you like.

Here we go again with the 'How is it any different to male circumcision?' argument. For a start,male circumcision doesn't involve the partial or complete removal of the genitalia,doesn't make intercourse difficult or painful,cause urinary retention,urinary infections,wound infection or septicaemia,complications during childbirth,formation of cysts and abscesses,menstrual problems,and the possibility of fistula problems. I am NOT saying that male circumcision is acceptable,I am actually against it unless it's necessary for medical reasons. But I don't think that it is really comparable to FGM. FGM used to be referred to as 'female circumcision' but was changed to 'female genital mutilation because that is exactly what it is.

burp oh I didn’t realise, I hope they look into the communities of the woman then to ensure all current and future girls born into it are safe.

Just checked and that earlier conviction wasn't actually a conviction because she was spared from having it done.

Zara 2016 from West Midlands. She was protected from arranged marriage and her family after disclosing to her doctor what was going to Happen.
. But she had to not only stand up to her family but a whole community
How many girls will be prepared to do that.

doesn't make intercourse difficult or painful,cause urinary retention,urinary infections,wound infection or septicaemia,

Well yes, male circumcision can cause all of these.

Of course it isn't the same as FGM but don't make out that it is harmless.

But they can't unless they physically check the girls which is a violation in itself!

It's so awful isn't it.

It really is awful.
Social workers should be the ones tackling this I guess, as it’s child abuse. Discrete conversations with girls at school who they suspect? I imagine I’m clutching at straws, it is just such a horrible thing to imagine being done to someone.