Why would you discourage a highly academic child from attending uni?

[WickedGoodDoge]

Just having a vent.

We went to the annual DH aunties Christmas get together where the mean aunties (with the exception of the one nice one) really excelled themselves this time. We had all sorts of judgements about our parenting, but actually, what stood out the most was this exchange between one particular aunt and DS:

Aunt: “Do you know what you want to do after you leave school?”
DS(16): “I’d like to study Maths at uni.”
Aunt: “Well, university isn’t for everyone. You could just get a job or an apprenticeship straight from school.”
DS: “I really like Maths and I’d quite like to study it.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone. There are other options. You should look at the other options. XX did an apprenticeship straight from school . University isn’t for everyone.”
Me: “No, he’s going to university.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone.”

It went on and on and on. I know there are other options. I fail to see why any would be better for DS, Fortunately DS saw the humour in it and spent much of the car ride home doubled over in laughter. I just get worn down by it and dread these get togethers.

For context, aunty and her DC are the only people in DH’s family (including DH) to have gone to university. She and the other aunties have been telling me that “university isn’t for everyone” since DS was 8. DS is a straight A student- we’re in Scotland where we sit Nat5s which I think are roughly equivalent to GCSE’s? He loves school, is highly academic, currently wants to become an actuary and does truly love Maths.

She’s a freaking secondary school teacher . WTF would she be so hellbent on discouraging DS?

Vent over.

I’m aware I now sound like a raving lunatic

You don't but they do. Secondary schools are usually criticised for emphasising university as if there are no other options, so it's all a bit odd. And as for the drinking!

Did the aunt definitely go to university? In Scotland you had to have a degree for secondary teaching, even way back, but I'm not sure that was the case in England. Maybe she's got an inferiority complex.

They are definitely lunatics, not you. Just tell them thank you for letting you know their opinions with a huge smile.

Or keep asking them why, like a 3 year old. It can be fun.

With those inflexible attitudes to university and drinking, I hope she doesn't teach at secondary/sixth form level?

Whao. That bit about drinking is OTT. Do these aunties have children of their own?

Wicked I know exactly how you feel. DS1 is at a top private academic school in London, and my cousin with two kids with PHDs insists he should become a bricklayer because “he will earn more than an economist working in the City” (this is what DS is aiming for). Why go to Oxford? You can just become a bricklayer and earn millions by working for yourself. Makes my blood boil.

One of the functions of MN is to vent!

Being exposed to this odd aunty will, fortunately, almost certainly result in your DS being surer of his own choices, re university, alcohol and anything else.

She wants to be the only one in the family whose DC went to university. In her mind your DS's academic ability detracts from her DC's. She doesn't understand that it's not a zero sum game.

my cousin with two kids with PHDs insists he should become a bricklayer because “he will earn more than an economist working in the City”

FIL was a brick layer one of the last properly trained - he's the main one who encouraged DH to aim for university and an indoor job if possible - and he loved his worked not so much the effect on his joints.

That sort of glib 'they should just...' type of thing is pretty disrespectful of skilled tradespeople. Like they're the easy options anyone can do.

ErrolTheDragon, lots of people think that tradesmen are minted (which is probably true) and don’t understand that there might be academic aspirations not entirely connected to income/owning your own business etc etc.

That sort of glib 'they should just...' type of thing is pretty disrespectful of skilled tradespeople. Like they're the easy options anyone can do.

People have that perception because of the huge numbers of "odd jobbers" who do that kind of work, call themselves plumbers, decorators, joiners, etc without the qualifications/experience etc.

When you actually engage a "proper" qualified tradesman to do a job, rather than the cheapest quote you got from the ZIT magazine, you know the difference.

Such a shame that so many trades/professions don't have proper regulation and barriers to entry as it dilutes the skills of the properly trained/regulated ones.

I agree skilled trades people are really needed. However, the idea that they earn the same as a city economist is laughable. They do not. That is also a fair reflection of ability, expertise and depth of study.

I must correct BarbaraofSeville: You cannot get qualified in 5 years as an Engineer if you do not have a degree. It takes around 3/4/5 years post MEng (4 year degree) to get qualified as an Engineer. No 18 year old without a degree can get fully qualified in 5 years. They can get a qualification, but not Chartered status and probably not Incorporated stautus either. Therefore the degree is important and is the key to higher earnings.

For any young person who is interested in maths, Economics, Econometrics, Maths and Engineering are great degrees. Yes, OP encourage him and he should not get an apprenticeship unless it is a degree apprenticeship. Then, it's unlikely to be a maths degree, so university is the best route for him and keeps options open.

I am surprised the Aunt does not have more words of encouragement. Posters should also know that the loan is not necessarily a debt in that many students will never pay it off. For lower paid young people, the degree is virtually free. However, for the higher pad it is not but then they earn enough to pay the required amount. Most nurses, teachers and people on average pay will not pay much student loan repayments. However, for a top city job, you eed the degree so the salary makes it worth it and you definitely earn way more than peooke without a degree. The Institute of Fiscal Studies has done a lot of work on this and their findings show that degree and institution count.

The 'bricklayer' comment may have arisen because of tabloid reporting of brickies on £90K pa. Which neglected the highly cyclical demand.

Now my next idle question is what do these amateur careers advisers suggest to girls?

thought being an air hostess was the perfect job for me because I could marry a pilot!

Yeah that was the idea behind the suggestion I become a nurse not a doctor. No point studying hard when you’ll leave to get married as soon as you snare a rich husband, is there? This was in the 90s so no excuse.

Yeah that was the idea behind the suggestion I become a nurse not a doctor. No point studying hard when you’ll leave to get married as soon as you snare a rich husband, is there? This was in the 90s so no excuse.

Unfortunately, it's even worse now as lots of young girls don't care about education as they aspire to become a WAG, and boys don't because they're going to be the next Beckham. Teachers are in despair at the sheer number of kids with that kind of attitude! Today's young are very polarised with some trying harder than having and aspiring to great careers, whilst others don't try at all. There's no middle ground anymore - that's a possible explanation why kids don't think about the apprentice options - the academic ones want uni, the WAGS and Beckham wannabees don't actually want a job.

There is a thread elsewhere on mumsnet about whether kids are more badly behaved now - yes and refusing to learn from experience is part of it. This is a typical mumsnet I know it all, no-one who is older than me can possibly say anything worth listening to thread.

So you wont listen - that's blatantly obvious - but it worth your child considering an apprenticeship for a variety of reasons. He will have no student debt but the money you spend supporting him could instead be spent on a house deposit. I have a friend who 2 children (neither has been to university) both have houses and both are only mid 20s. They have been earning money, enjoying themselves and are now settling down. Although they wont register this for years they have also been making useful pension contributions.

Maths degrees notoriously (google it) involve a bigger step up between school and university than most degrees. It's a worthwhile degree to have so definitely an option but you and he should not have such closed minds.

Should the topic come up again the polite - and only sensible - responses are either I have looked at it but I think a degree will suit me better or thank you for the suggestion, I'll consider it.

Definitely a parenting fail by you.

There's a difference between pointing out options and discouraging. Read the OP.

The OPs son was perfectly polite during the conversation and this family are aware of other options, including apprenticeships. Your comments would be correct in some contexts but really not appropriate here, already.

No, already as I stated in my first post, I know there are other options, I fail to see why any are better for DS. DS quite actively wants to do a Maths degree. This of course assumes he gets the required Higher marks, and given that just yesterday he managed to accidentally drop the hatch thing for our loft into the wall, leaving a massive hole in the plaster, it is entirely possible that he is not as clever as I think!

If he doesn’t get the required marks, he’ll obviously need to have a rethink, but right now, that’s the path he wants to take and I find it odd that someone would be so focused on discouraging him. Well, not really because everything we do is wrong according to her, but hey ho.

We might give him a house deposit as well. I don’t know. That’ll depend on where he ends up/what would be beneficial. He might end up in the US and if that’s the case, a degree will be far more useful to him than a house deposit (actually, that house deposit would likely be better used as post-grad tuition if he ends up in the US!).

given that just yesterday he managed to accidentally drop the hatch thing for our loft into the wall, leaving a massive hole in the plaster, it is entirely possible that he is not as clever as I think!

Sounds like an indication he may be better off sticking with numbers - whether that turns out to be a pure 'mathmo' or the more applied branches of maths - and not some of the more practical alternatives which might be suggested.

Ironic that somebody accusing you of not listening clearly hasn’t RTFT since they are blathering on about tuition fees when you are in Scotland...

TBF, I think already was talking about living expenses outwith the tuition fees, but I forgot to add a point about their comment about the notorious jump from school to uni for Maths.

already It’s not quite as black and white as that. If DS were applying for entry next year then yes, I’d be worried about the jump from Higher Maths to first year Maths. However, he’ll be doing AH in Maths, Statistics and either Computing Science or Mathmatics of Mechanics. In theory, if (and it’s a very big if) he were to well enough in those, he could actually apply for direct entry to second year at a number of Scottish universities. I personally wouldn’t recommend it for him, regardless of his marks, but with three solid AH’s behind him, I don’t think the jump is as big as you believe.

• The jump from school to first year, that is.

AH in Maths, Statistics and either Computing Science or Mathmatics of Mechanics

But is he sure he likes maths?