Why would you discourage a highly academic child from attending uni?

[WickedGoodDoge]

Just having a vent.

We went to the annual DH aunties Christmas get together where the mean aunties (with the exception of the one nice one) really excelled themselves this time. We had all sorts of judgements about our parenting, but actually, what stood out the most was this exchange between one particular aunt and DS:

Aunt: “Do you know what you want to do after you leave school?”
DS(16): “I’d like to study Maths at uni.”
Aunt: “Well, university isn’t for everyone. You could just get a job or an apprenticeship straight from school.”
DS: “I really like Maths and I’d quite like to study it.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone. There are other options. You should look at the other options. XX did an apprenticeship straight from school . University isn’t for everyone.”
Me: “No, he’s going to university.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone.”

It went on and on and on. I know there are other options. I fail to see why any would be better for DS, Fortunately DS saw the humour in it and spent much of the car ride home doubled over in laughter. I just get worn down by it and dread these get togethers.

For context, aunty and her DC are the only people in DH’s family (including DH) to have gone to university. She and the other aunties have been telling me that “university isn’t for everyone” since DS was 8. DS is a straight A student- we’re in Scotland where we sit Nat5s which I think are roughly equivalent to GCSE’s? He loves school, is highly academic, currently wants to become an actuary and does truly love Maths.

She’s a freaking secondary school teacher . WTF would she be so hellbent on discouraging DS?

Vent over.

I have no problem with other options being pointed out to DS. His school does this- hence his possible interest in the PWC Edinburgh University programme. However, I think it is utterly odd for her to repeatedly tell DS that “university isn’t for everyone” after he’s specifically said that’s what he wants to do - and then try to direct him down what she seems to think are more suitable routes for him...

www.actuaries.org.uk/become-actuary/actuarial-apprenticeships

Violinboymum Back in the 60s actuaries didn’t need degrees! Way back then it was common for you to start at whatever life assurance company and they would put you through your actuarial exams, but not a degree. When I first started in FS, barely any of the senior executives had degrees and would wax lyrical about how it used to be.

But yeah, that was a looooong time ago.

At the moment, he wants to be an Actuary, but he’s 16 and this may well change. Ideally he wants to end up in the US, going down a route of undergraduate here and either into actuarial work or post-grad in the US and into work over there. But again, he’s 16 so this may well change.

Sounds like a bright young man and he definitely needs to go to uni with career plans like that.

Debt isn't an issue so I don't see a problem.

Is there a back story with Auntie? Did she no go to uni herself? Have any dc herself that didn't go to uni?

Is she jealous?

She is jealous that he is your child. Ha

I do find the aunt's and other people's reactions on here very odd. If any sixteen-year-old gave such a positive answer to a question about their future I would ask them more about their interests, not immediately try to discourage them.

But my dd always had that sort of reaction from her aunts. She's a dancer and whatever type of dance she was studying, she'd be criticised for not studying some other type.

Sorry I was not even born in the 60’s :) We have several actuaries in our family and each one first graduated from a uni and then joined a scheme at work

It seems pretty clear that she wants her side of the family to be the only university educated members of your wider family!

Here’s your answer, OP. The fact that your DS might outshine hers. Nothing more to it.

His view is that DS should not tie himself down too much at 18

That's fair enough and I wouldn't pitch one of these apprenticeships as an alternative to university unless it included a degree to someone academically inclined. Similarly the simple desire to go to university full time is also a factor. However I find people often do not appreciate a degree is part of the package (as is apparent in some posts here).

We ask for similar entry requirements to an RG uni to our grad apprenticeship schemes and pay a bit less than grad and pro rata as there is additional time off built into the programme (this is a "big" but I'm not the accounting division).

A lot of our clients are running similar schemes - a friend's daughter went to big cap markets bank grad apprenticeship a couple of years back with 2A* and 1A at A-level and its a great scheme. The good schemes are definitely not second best to uni, maybe that is the point that the Aunt was clumsily trying to put across.

Not saying these are bad options, just they aren't the mega deal that a degree paid for while earning a salary was that they were offering a couple of years ago!

Yes I'd generally agree with that. KPMG and PWC still had grad apprentices in Tech Cons, possibly its just accounting dropping them. Possibly the engineering and technology based grad apprenticeships offer a better deal than the accounting side.

We went very early into these schemes, I was sceptical at the time - very sharp learning curve when you combine the knowledge, the mobility, the client facing and the course requirements. Current scheme is quite different from the first cut. I think its a lot easier to run these schemes in a standard organisation.

I'm someone who went to university because it was expected of me and because I didn't really know what I wanted to do at 18 YO. I've done absolutely nothing with my degree and I personally wouldn't encourage my children to go unless they were going to study a vocational subject. My siblings on the other hand have done more vocational subjects (health care) and have gone into those fields with their career.

It's all well and good doing what you enjoy, but I did that and didn't benefit from it at all.

Tall poppy syndrome? Does she think "your family" aren't the kind of people who go to uni?

very sharp learning curve when you combine the knowledge, the mobility, the client facing and the course requirements.

Yes, the maturity required from the school leavers was quite extraordinary really, and the hours etc expected of them through busy season in my dept were crazy. I certainly struggled managing them when they were new, as I felt like I was having to be more of a school teacher than a colleague/manager, and it really tested my patience.

We found the old school leaver scheme was working quite well, but currently somewhat sceptical about the new one actually: lowering grades was supposed to widen participation which is great, but imo the recruitment process hasn't done that successfully, so it's not bringing in the bright kids from less advantaged backgrounds.

The lack of degree time increases the amount of time they are available to work, but at the same time makes it less appealing, and book-keeping style courses for 3 years is risky in terms of the speed they cover accounting content Vs the speed they're required to apply it. I needed DB pension and provision knowledge within about 9-12 months of joining, which was before we'd even got through it on ACA, so think it could be a difficulty with the more book-keeping type courses.

I live some where where every Tom Dick and Harry have degrees along with Jane Jill and Anne...a math degree would mean you need to take a teachers training course because no matter what grade you get from where you would be unlikely to find work. Just another barista at Starbucks.

Bertie That’s what DH thinks it comes down to and TBF, his parents never saw any value in DH getting a degree and none of his other cousins have degrees- it is literally just this aunt and her DC within his whole family who have degrees. It’s quite different on my side, but I doubt she’s aware of this.

I'm reminded of my mother describing the sneering disbelief of one of her cousin's adult children on being told she (my mother) had a degree. Goodness only knows what had been said about her in that family. The context was claiming that the speakers work as a TA hearing children read was equivalent to the private remedial teaching my mother did for several decades, off the back of experience in both teaching and child psychology work ...

Good luck to your son, a maths degree sounds an excellent plan. I have a daughter the same age who is still very unsure what she wants to study, but university is clearly the right step. Hoping for at least some clarity to start to emerge before A level subjects are settled!

Maybe she's trying to save DC from the worst fate know to humanity (becoming an actuary)?

Well, you know all the actuary vs accountant jokes...

Gifts - a degree in a subject such as maths means you're more likely to be able to move away to somewhere else where there is good employment. Begs the question why those graduates are staying if there's no jobs for them... nice location or that they did subjects which don't make them attractive to employers? and are there jobs for non-graduates?

a math degree would mean you need to take a teachers training course because no matter what grade you get from where you would be unlikely to find work. Just another barista at Starbucks

How odd. My friend is a well-paid professor of engineering, who has a maths degree and says that all her mates who moved out of academia earn twice what she earns.

An Actuary is someone that guesses the future a Accountant relives and dubiously changes the past

I wouldn't discourage a low ability academic kid from going to Uni... unless they had applied & not got in but were still scheming & I would then argue ... "too much effort, look for other paths"...

I would say the same to a clever clogs who didn't get in where they wanted.