Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Why would you discourage a highly academic child from attending uni?

175 replies

WickedGoodDoge · 29/12/2018 10:05

Just having a vent.

We went to the annual DH aunties Christmas get together where the mean aunties (with the exception of the one nice one) really excelled themselves this time. We had all sorts of judgements about our parenting, but actually, what stood out the most was this exchange between one particular aunt and DS:

Aunt: “Do you know what you want to do after you leave school?”
DS(16): “I’d like to study Maths at uni.”
Aunt: “Well, university isn’t for everyone. You could just get a job or an apprenticeship straight from school.”
DS: “I really like Maths and I’d quite like to study it.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone. There are other options. You should look at the other options. XX did an apprenticeship straight from school . University isn’t for everyone.”
Me: “No, he’s going to university.”
Aunt: “But university isn’t for everyone.”

It went on and on and on. I know there are other options. I fail to see why any would be better for DS, Fortunately DS saw the humour in it and spent much of the car ride home doubled over in laughter. I just get worn down by it and dread these get togethers.

For context, aunty and her DC are the only people in DH’s family (including DH) to have gone to university. She and the other aunties have been telling me that “university isn’t for everyone” since DS was 8. DS is a straight A student- we’re in Scotland where we sit Nat5s which I think are roughly equivalent to GCSE’s? He loves school, is highly academic, currently wants to become an actuary and does truly love Maths.

She’s a freaking secondary school teacher . WTF would she be so hellbent on discouraging DS?

Vent over. Grin

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 29/12/2018 14:49

She was rude, but you didn’t need to enter the conversation.

brizzledrizzle · 29/12/2018 14:52

The careers advisor at my DD's school has told her it's not worth going to university if she wants to be an engineer. Not sure I agree either.

C8H10N4O2 · 29/12/2018 14:54

it's not worth going to university if she wants to be an engineer

That is a remarkably sweeping statement - it would depend a lot on the type of engineering she wants to do apart from anything else.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

16 year olds Families General education Higher education
LiveSleepSnore · 29/12/2018 14:56

I think it would be good for a lot of ( all?) kids to be in the workplace for a bit and then go to university.

Another point is that there are very good opportunities for high level apprenticeships with top firms. These and getting sponsored to do a degree are only open to high achievers who interview well!

I really wouldn't have taken offence at the suggestion of an apprenticeship route on its own.

C8H10N4O2 · 29/12/2018 15:01

These and getting sponsored to do a degree are only open to high achievers who interview well!

Yes this is true. Our apprentices come in with similar level of academics to those going to top universities and in addition they go through an interview process and assessment centre.

Nacreous · 29/12/2018 15:02

The Big 4 apprenticeships are okay but really not as good as they used to be (longer, worse pay, no degree mainly now), and they do tie you in for a long time. (3 years just for AAT, and then another 3 for your ACA.) It's also mainly not jobs in actuarial work, as most of the jobs are in audit coz that's where the grunt work is.

If I could go to uni with no fees I would: because the opportunity to study something you love and make the friends you do and have all that time is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

brizzledrizzle · 29/12/2018 15:04

That is a remarkably sweeping statement - it would depend a lot on the type of engineering she wants to do apart from anything else.

I know. The careers advisor doesn't know (she didn't ask) that DD wants to be a medical engineer designing equipment to help people with muscular skeletal injuries or prosthetic limbs.

C8H10N4O2 · 29/12/2018 15:08

DD wants to be a medical engineer designing equipment to help people with muscular skeletal injuries or prosthetic limbs

I would have thought that more a candidate for one of the good engineering universities which does an industrial year - Brunel, Surrey, Bath, UMIST-as-was types.

Medical engineering is not my area of expertise but as a recipient of graduates, many in engineering, its notable that the intake from those uni's and similar often outperform those without the industrial experience.

Badbadbunny · 29/12/2018 15:14

I think there should be a lot more of this type of thing available in suitable industries, eg healthcare, accountancy, banking, law, sciences, as well as engineering.

There are non-degree entry routes into some of those. Certainly accountancy has non-degree routes with virtually all "town centre" practices taking on non-degree trainees and even some of the big 4 firms do it now too.

C8H10N4O2 · 29/12/2018 15:15

The Big 4 apprenticeships are okay but really not as good as they used to be (longer, worse pay, no degree mainly now)

I believe Deloitte has dropped the degree part but the other "Bigs" all still included degrees last time I was comparing. 3-4 yrs typically depending on specialisation. Starting pay is lower than for grads but that is because they are not grades.

You are committed for the apprenticeship period but that is standard on all apprenticeships (including non degree apprenticeships which may last 5 yrs or more).

Nacreous · 29/12/2018 16:20

C8

Pretty sure KPMG has dropped theirs, and EY has in accounting, and I'm struggling to find on at PwC on their website now (they are offering degrees but where you seem to pay the fees and then just do paid summer placements, I think)

Not saying these are bad options, just they aren't the mega deal that a degree paid for while earning a salary was that they were offering a couple of years ago!

Original poster
WickedGoodDoge · 29/12/2018 16:21

C8H10N4O2 My actuarial comments are current. DH works for one of the big consultancies and pretty much does the rounds of the Edinburgh FS companies so we know both current and former actuarial trainees.

He'll openly admit that his one big regret is not doing a degree. Even now at his level, he comes up against barriers by not having a degree. His view is that DS should not tie himself down too much at 18. Better to do a Maths degree and see where his head is at the end of it.

OP posts:
milienhaus · 29/12/2018 16:24

I’m a young actuary (5 years post-uni) currently and don’t know anyone in my company or elsewhere who didn’t do a degree first - definitely still the norm!

ErrolTheDragon · 29/12/2018 16:49

You could just get a job or an apprenticeship straight from school.”

'Just'? My impression is there aren't nearly enough good apprenticeships available. Which is a shame, because of course university isn't for everyone (or shouldn't be).

The careers advisor at my DD's school has told her it's not worth going to university if she wants to be an engineer.

That careers advisor probably has very little idea of the huge breadth of activities and range of aptitudes and therefore appropriate levels of study covered by 'engineer'!
Quite a few teachers are, unfortunately, similarly pretty clueless about such things.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/12/2018 16:54

I meant to put a Grin in there... it sounds, OP, like you and your DS are very much not the correct target audience for the lecture on alternatives to uni!

Bowchicawowow · 29/12/2018 16:56

One of DS’s friends isn’t planning to go to university because he has been told by his DF ad infinitum that apprenticeships are a better prospect. My view is that nothing should be ruled out when you are talking about 17 years olds.

Kintan · 29/12/2018 17:00

It seems pretty clear that she wants her side of the family to be the only university educated members of your wider family!

Micah · 29/12/2018 17:07

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to point out options.

I had it the other way. I was academic so i was going to uni, end of. Or it would be “a waste”. I had no clue what i wanted to do. I took a year out to try and figure out other options but bent to family pressure and went the following year.

Utter waste of time as although i took an academic degree and did well, it has actually stopped me going into the career I want.

Having said that if your ds knows he wants to work in a financial field maths is definitely a good starting point. He just needs to keep saying he’s looked at the options and he needs a maths degree for the career he wants, there are no alternate routes.

strangerthongs · 29/12/2018 17:14

I'm a careers adviser in scotland and apprenticeships are very high profile at the moment. There are so many now, and also graduate apprenticeships so maybe that's why she's mentioning them? He could do an apprenticeship in Maths, either work his way up to degree level, or do a graduate level one, and this means he has a job and a degree and nothing to pay back.

She's right, uni is not for everyone, but it is also his choice. Has he really explored all his options though or is it just university he knows about? University is not the only option for academic young people now and apprenticeships are not just for 'the thick kids'.

Badadadum · 29/12/2018 17:18

Huge competition for apprenticeships straight from school - if you can get one in the area you enjoy then why not. DH has worked with a few apprentices and he has been blown away with their ability - he says they are able to do stuff he took years to get his head around - in his opinion the competition is so strong, they are the absolute cream.

Badadadum · 29/12/2018 17:21

Last time I looked locally the majority of apprenticeships were poor in terms of job prospects - bar tender, business admin to name a couple nothing at degree level - that's in the SE and the kids have been told the same story at school, if you can get into a good one at degree level then you will have achieved something amazing as availability is so poor.

Original poster
WickedGoodDoge · 29/12/2018 17:22

Kintan That’s what DH thinks. Grin Grin Grin Not just based on the other day but on years of various comments from her.

I suspect DS has been a bit led down the actuarial route by us and suspect once away from home he might find other possible careers he’s more interested in, but he’s quite firm on a Maths degree (assuming he gets the marks for it). At the moment, at least! He’ll be studying other subjects the first two years as well so maybe he’ll end up wanting to be an anthropologist or something. Grin

OP posts:
NearWildHeaven · 29/12/2018 17:23

She's right to point out it's an option. Perhaps not the right one for you DS, but a valid option.

For someone who is sure of what they want to do it can be an excellent way of training and starting to earn money. And from my own experience (fs) there are many fewer applications for apprenticeships than at the grad level. Grad programmes can be ridiculously competitive.

I'm not sure what I'll advise my children to do. I have a few years to ponder it. I know we were funnelled into "uni is best" in the 90s but not sure if that's still best.

NearWildHeaven · 29/12/2018 17:27

Also, again only my own experience (Scottish) we only take apprentice candidates who would have good grades (uni entry equivalent) because they need to juggle a full time job plus studying. It's an alternative to uni, not for those who can't get into uni.

Violinboymum · 29/12/2018 17:31

I’ve never met an actuary without a degree. I am not sure this is even possible. Maybe your brother was doing some modules but have not actually qualified as one? There are graduate schemes but you obviously first need a degree to join. All actuaries I know have maths or statistics degrees. Something is not adding up.