Where children really better behaved in the past or do people remember with rose tinted glasses?

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This is inspired by a video online whereby a toddler was having a massive tantrum on a 8 hour flight.
A lot of the comments underneath basically were how terrible a parent the mother was and how in their day the child wouldn't have dared behave like that.
What is the alleged difference? What are we not doing that we did then? Or do people only remember the good parts and forget their children also behaved like that.
I personally as a mother of a toddler found the comments awful. I suspect the mother was not having the time of her life either.

I think technology is an influencing factor.

I was loved and listened to as a child, but decisions were taken by the adults and unchallenged by children beyond a minor grump.

That an interesting point Mischief we were discussing which new car to buy earlier this year and a relative said seriously “what do the children want you to get?”.

We laughed because it hadn’t even occurred to us to ask the kids’ opinion. The relative was appalled that our (primary school) children’s views weren’t being carefully considered.

At Christmas my 1yo sat nicely through dinner, ate what he was given and played quietly with a small toy. SIL’s 2yo screamed, spat out mouthfuls of food when he didn’t like the taste of something (assisted by his parents who scooped the food out of his mouth with their fingers), and ended up watching a tablet at the table while eating cake. After dinner their child kicked mine, seized his toys and screamed when made to hand them back.

My child isn’t necessarily better behaved though - their lax parenting is at fault. My child would have been told to eat the dinner that was on the table with no alternative offered, and removed from the table if he persisted in being naughty, not rewarded with a tablet and a treat.

I agree that children fitted into their parents lives. Nowadays the parents fit into their children’s lives - they consider their own desires when they have spare time after running them to this and that club, cooking 3 different meals etc.

I agree, beerandchocolate. But it requires direct teaching, understanding that yours is not the only voice, that the volume and repetition do not reinforce your argument, and that with rights come responsibilities.

In their day it’s unlikely there would be a toddler on a flight - perish the thought - and there certainly wouldn’t have been someone filming it to name and shame . Toddlers have tantrums - and who can blame them belted in for eight hours with the associated ear pressure changes on takeoff and landing .

I do not think children have changed, but the rules that were put on them 50 years ago have changed.

There definitely was an element of "seen and not heard" and I knew that I had to behave or else - a smack for sure! I would certainly not have dreamed of not doing as I was told! If Mum said to go up and get ready for bed, you just did it, no question.

My AC warn their children when it is nearly bedtime, give them time to get used to the idea, then reason with them if they kick off. I admire that in many ways as it is thoughtful and kind, but I do feel tired just watching them. Much easier on the parents to just know that you had to do as you were told!

I find it hard to remember how it went with my own children - rose-tinted specs definitely feature. But I do remember particularly bad individual episodes. I also remember that the outcomes of bad behaviour were very clear for my children - not smacking of course! - but they knew that I meant what I said for sure.

I am often in a local primary school and the behaviour there is good - but the structures around good behaviour are very clear indeed.

In the 80s people ate out less and I know my parents never took me to restaurant as a toddler. There would have definitely been fewer misbehaving toddlers in restaurants in the 80s because they would have been at home.

I think that children were ‘better’ behaved but I’m not sure that we want a return to the ways in which some of this was achieved

This. I was an extremely well behaved child. She was very proud that she could “take me anywhere”. I was terrified of my mother. I am now an adult who is still terrified of doing the wrong thing or making a mistake, contantly worried what people think.

I think some of it has swung the other way, we don’t want to bring up cowed children.

I also think some people enjoy babies and very young children- and gender comes into this as it seems to be girls- who can be trained to do what a parent says. Then they rebel, even at a young age and it becomes a battle of wills. “Threenager” etc.

Also how to discipline without the old fashioned fear is tough. We were given supernanny, time out, getting down to a childs level, lots of confusing means and methods. People just gave up, or applied inconsistently.

But kids definitely had tantrums in the 70’s. Difference is you could wallop your child in the supermarket and no one would say anything.

MrsJayy you witnessed five minutes of interaction.

She gave in to his tantrum.

She may be a crap parent with no boundaries or just maybe she’d had a shit day, was exhausted and it was easier at that point to give in.

You’ve judged her on five minutes of interaction with no idea what lead up to it, how she was feeling, any SEN etc. As a say she may have no boundaries and he may play in that but it might have been a one off.

Children have always been badly behaved.

I grew up in the 80's and for my early years especially, it was still the time when kids were allowed to run out and play all day. So we were pretty much feral and not actually present in front of our parents. I think my parents would probably be shocked with a lot of the things we got up to. Back in those days, kids wouldn't be taken to the supermarket, we'd be left to roam the streets while our parents went to the shop.

I think parents are present in their children's lives more now and probably trying to guide them tell them what to do more. I do also think there's more expectations on children to behave like adults. Like other PP said, a 2YO on a plane would have been rare a generation ago. Kids weren't taken out to eat every meal and there was none of these coffee shops filled with mothers meetings.

but when I’m sitting in a coffee shop I do want parents to keep their child under control

When I was growing up, going to a cafe for a drink was a treat, let alone a meal. We'd be on a warning to be well behaved. I suspect what's happening now is it is much more normal to see kids in what was previously 'adult' spaces. You are far more likely to see kids out with their parents and unsupervised play is almost unheard of.

Silkei my DD is 2.5 and for her first two Christmases she was perfect at the dinner table. This year not as good and she needed a break between courses. Children get worse and then they get better.

children were more 'feral' even 15 years ago.
so they had time with other children running off steam outside. it's easier to 'behave' (hate that word) if you only had to in short bursts after you had plenty of exercise

This is totally true. The academic research is clear that plenty of opportunity to free play improves children's self regulation. Partly because they learn self -regulation through free play.

Surely though when people say ‘my kids never behaved like that’ etc etc those said kids are now adults and are now the ones bringing up these so called unruly kids ? It had to start somewhere surely. So on that basis it is actually the fault of those banging on about ‘kids in my day’ as they obviously didn’t parent their child effectively to carry it on through the generations??

Christmas my 1yo sat nicely through dinner, ate what he was given and played quietly with a small toy. SIL’s 2yo screamed, spat out mouthfuls of food when he didn’t like the taste of something (assisted by his parents who scooped the food out of his mouth with their fingers), and ended up watching a tablet at the table while eating cake. After dinner their child kicked mine, seized his toys and screamed when made to hand them back. My child isn’t necessarily better behaved though - their lax parenting is at fault

Have you literally never heard the phrase terrible twos? And every book on weaning tells you that most children eat most things until about 18 months, when pickiness normally sets in. I suspect next Christmas you'll find your toddler rather harder than he was this year - and I hope your SIL is bloody horrible to you about it!

This thread is full of absolute unintentionally hilarious gems.

My eldest never tantrummed. He isn’t a prodigy! He’s just of a quiet and gentle disposition.

My youngest has been through a very gruelling phase of tantrums. They were quite a thing to behold! A real force of nature - no reason or rationality behind it, no logic in his brain to tell him he wouldn’t get what he wanted, just an uncontrollable surge of terrible emotion. It’s a normal developmental stage that some children go through. I treated my children in the same way, one of them had tantrums and the other didn’t.

He came out of the sports shopi want my trainers mum saidno he asked again mum said no not now at home he started screaming in her face i judged i heard everything because I was behind them on the stairs then she let himput them on he stopped screaming in her face it wasn't really a hard scenario to understand,

No, Mrs Jayy, you have no idea. You have no idea if his Dad just died, if he is being relentless bullied at school, if he has SEN, if the mother is on the brink of mental collapse. You have no idea. You really don't.

Children definitely weren’t better behaved in the past if children’s literature is any guide.

However they are more likely to spend time with adults.

It is easier to give in, it often stops the unwanted behaviour on that occasion. But doing so reinforces the pattern. Likewise, shutting up your child with a tablet or phone is easier than talking to them, just like a slap stopped them in the past. DEaling with a symptom, not the cause doesn’t change or improve things long-term.

Apparently my older sister was 'perfect' and so well behaved in restaurants that my parents could take her out without a worry. Two years later I came along Tried to stand up in my high chair and shouted. They then didn't take me, simple!

Toddlers have always tantrummed. I remember my mum telling me how she took her younger brother to the corner shop when she was about 10(so 60 years ago), he had a huge tantrum and laid on the floor and so she just left him there.

One of mine has only done it once and it was in the supermarket and was loud and embarrassing. If you had seen me you would have thought I am a terrible parent, you wouldn’t know it was not his usual behaviour. Turns out there was a reason behind this and we ended up having a hospital stay the next day as he was coming down with a nasty infection.

Silkeii your post about your perfect one year old made me laugh. My in laws had one of those in DSIL. She was placid, easy to parent and slept well. ....then they had DSIL 2 ....safe to say their illusions about their perfect parenting were shattered and never resurfaced

Apparently DSIL 2 had tantrums which are legendary, she didn’t sleep and more or less raged and screamed her way right through to school where she inexplicably settled down.

By the time DH arrived they were older, wiser and awaited his personality to present itself....he was easy.

Toddler tantrums aren’t bad behaviour, they are a normal part of child development, a part of learning they can’t always get what they want and dealing with the emotions connected with that.

An older child tantrumming would be bad behaviour but would undoubtedly be caused by over indulgent parenting at the toddler stage.

I think this thread can only really be answered by those who have lived through the parenting in say the 60's and 70's either by being parented or being a parent.
My opinion is that children behave a lot lot worse now as when I was a child we all would have had the same
Behaviours except we would have been under threat of being severely physically chastised. So we behaved better as didn't want to be beaten. It's really that simple. We weren't
A different species of child we just grew to
Know that the consequences of
Any unwanted behaviour had dire
Consequences. We now accept that children shouldn't be beaten and we have parents who really don't know how to discipline. I'd hate for physical punishment to be used again and parented myself in the 80's and 90's without using it. My children didn't have any behaviour problems.