Where children really better behaved in the past or do people remember with rose tinted glasses?

[username5555]

This is inspired by a video online whereby a toddler was having a massive tantrum on a 8 hour flight.
A lot of the comments underneath basically were how terrible a parent the mother was and how in their day the child wouldn't have dared behave like that.
What is the alleged difference? What are we not doing that we did then? Or do people only remember the good parts and forget their children also behaved like that.
I personally as a mother of a toddler found the comments awful. I suspect the mother was not having the time of her life either.

I saw a 10ish yearold tantrum yesterday because his mum said no to him wearing his new trainers he screeched loud enough to get his own way I was agog

Toddlers have always explored boundaries. What’s changed is the way parents and society reacts and the child centric and egocentric entitlement. There are less clear expectations and greater fear of intervention.

I asked my parents and they said I never had a tantrum. We think it's 'normal' now but that isn't necessarily the case.

Are you an only child? I didn't much tantrum, apparently. If my parents were under any delusion that this was due to their excellent parenting then my brother, who tantrummed like it was an Olympic sport, disabused them of that.

I never had a tantrum as a child. Firstly I didn't see the need but also I knew it would be neither acceptable nor helpful.

Yeah, Sally, but you can remember can't you? - that as a one year old and two year old you rationalised yourself out of a tantrum because you knew it would be neither helpful or acceptable. You are delusional woman.

With regard toddlers, the world wasn't set up for parents with young children so they were at home more and so less visible (no baby changing facilities etc).

But I do think children are worse behaved in many ways. Expectations are very low. I'm afraid I think a lot of it is to do with hyper-inclusivity - but I don't know the answer.

I also think toddlers would have rarely been taken on 8 hour flights or to restaurants.

I was a child in the 60s. One of the key changes I’ve noticed, in addition to hitting a child no longer being acceptable is the idea of a child’s opinion, wants or priorities as being something taken into consideration. Sometimes as equal to that of the adults.
I was loved and listened to as a child, but decisions were taken by the adults and unchallenged by children beyond a minor grump. Tantrums were for toddlers, true rebellion for late teens. As a child, the expectation was that you complied.

I think that the wants of children used to come way down the list of "things to be considered". The world was set up to suit the adults and children were expected to fit in with that. The shift towards being child-focused is mostly to be welcomed, but in some circumstances, for some children, it can leave them without the boundaries they need to thrive.

I'm in my 60's - kids used to get smacked for misbehaviour when I was one. And they got caned in school. In general I think that people were more in awe of authority then - we were brought up to be afraid of policemen, teachers etc. These days parents kindly tell their kids how nice everyone is, and kids can't be punished in any painful way, so they do tend to get away with more than we did.

I'm pretty sure that if I'd played up on a plane ( or a train in those days ) I'd have got a very painful smacking . I'm not saying that was a good thing, but pain did have an effect on badly-behaved kids.

I saw a 10ish yearold tantrum yesterday because his mum said no to him wearing his new trainers he screeched loud enough to get his own way I was agog

You have no idea why that child reacted the way he did. It's neither kind nor smart to judge on these isolated incidents.

I took my toddlers out not on 8 hour flights right enough that is actual maddness

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates

Growing up we always had the threat of a ‘good hiding’, which was followed through if naughty so that stopped me from misbehaving.

I completely agree with purple.

People tell me all the time about how teenagers are different now - they aren’t at all but the circumstances they are in are different and very complex.

I am extremely loathe to blame parenting but I do sometimes wonder if the constant repetition of What busy modern lives we all lead makes us less willing/able to invest time in actually being responsive. Handing over stuff/food to resolve an issue rather than actually engage with the issue.

Parents have lost their family links and their village as well. We used to be surrounded by support networks and very clear examples of how things were done (for better or worse frankly) but now people can live a long way from any support.

It’s hard I think.

But yes - I agree with the frustration of roaming children in coffee shops. I am ALWAYS the one the child wants to come and engage with.

@beerandchocolate to be fair I was a bit of a prodigy so probably not the norm . Look, the point I'm making is that not every child throws tantrums and they can learn at a very young age not to if it does not get the desired result. My parents were not actually that great at parenting - quite distant emotionally - but without resorting to violence they made it very clear what was acceptable and what was not. My mother was also obsessed with not making a scene and with what others might think so would do everything she could to ensure we didn't disturb anyone. It is possible.
I'm the second child Lisa of two.

What in earth is “hyper-inclusivity”?

Lots of good insight on this thread but laughing at the poster who said she never tantrummed as a child. I hate to tell her but she almost certain,y did tantrum as a toddler...it’s part and parcel of normal development.

Kids get away with a lot more nowadays. Teens have no respect for the police either as they know they are basically untouchable.

is the idea of a child’s opinion, wants or priorities as being something taken into consideration

I think this is great. It doesn't mean no boundaries. My children's nursery worked on these principles. But there were also clear expectations of being in a harmonious community. The children were articulate and intelligent and happy and well socialised.

I now go to another nursery where the children are taught to shut up and listen and the poorer experiences the children have is marked.

children were more 'feral' even 15 years ago.
so they had time with other children running off steam outside. it's easier to 'behave' (hate that word) if you only had to in short bursts after you had plenty of exercise.
and more sleep because of less tv/internet until late at night.

I find it weird all the posts claiming not to want children smacked but also claiming that is why children appear to have been better behaved.

Plenty of us grew up in a time when smacking was the norm but were not smacked. Something else was different.

He came out of the sports shopi want my trainers mum saidno he asked again mum said no not now at home he started screaming in her face i judged i heard everything because I was behind them on the stairs then she let himput them on he stopped screaming in her face it wasn't really a hard scenario to understand,

I’ve heard enough stories of what my dad got up to as a kid to think they can’t have been that much better behaved!

How many teens do you know nenic? I happen to know a very large number and could count on one hand the number who have no respect for the police

Another thing that is different (obviously not applicable in the case you mention) is that if other adults saw children misbehaving they were allowed to take them to task, without expecting to have the parent appear at their door saying “only I will tell my child what to do” or being reported to the police.

I never had a tantrum as a child. Firstly I didn't see the need but also I knew it would be neither acceptable nor helpful.

How on earth can you remember? And secondly why do you think a tantrum is always something that can be controlled. Babies have tantrums, very young toddlers have them too. They are a recognised emotional response for the age group.
I doubt very much they sit and think "I shall throw a tantrum now, it will be most acceptable and helpful for me"
Of course there are some older children who learn to get attention/their own way they need to make a big loud fuss but I don't call that a tantrum.