Happy now antivaccers?

[viques]

60,000 cases of measles in Europe in the last 12 months.

72 deaths.

Preventable.

@gilead apology accepted.

@gilead where did I cite you as caution? Happy to apologise if you can cite that.

If that is aimed at me, then as a general hint: showing you have no idea what the Cochran collaboration is and regarding their output as “articles” shows your ignorance of medical research

Of course anybody who deoesnt agree with you is ignorant and has no idea.

Perhaps look deeper into why one article might not be enough. There is some criticism of cochrane collaboration research and it isn't as conclusive as you suggest.

Some may silence people by calling them stupid, comparing to child abusers etc is a lazy way to win an argument with discussion.

It's not an attempt to win an argument. Arguing with people trying to undermine vaccination uptake is daft- they will not listen to reason. The argument about each vaccine's use is had by medical professionals, not on MN

The points you quote are a discussion about how society should treat those who who make legal, but immoral choices.

As to how we should deal with fibs told on the internet, I think it's mostly better not to feed them and simply restate basic science.

I feel that it's not the anti vac people's fault but how information is given about being vaccinated. Peoples fears are obviously not being dealt with or it wouldn't be an issue.

When the scare between autism and MMR came out the government dealt with it quite badly. I believe they didn't give enough time to explain how autism is caused.
The governments or Wakefield's evidence wasn't statistically robust.
The whole media output was a bit like a show down or circus. This caused fear and it is still trickling through now.

I have worked in autism for over 20 years and it appears , in my eyes , to be more prevalent.
I totally accept that someone with higher functioning ASD and often girls are now being diagnosed where they may have not before. But very young children who present with the disorder are I feel coming through at a higher percentage than they were 5 years ago.

Vaccines need to be explained better. My D was given a leaflet and a date for her baby. But as health visitors have been cut she has had vertically no contact with one. This means she is left to learn through friends , media and family. All good in this case but often not in others. Simple things like one mum saying she gives her toddler tea , says it's fine , normalises it , so her friend then tries it with her toddler. So it goes on. There's no professional to tell them otherwise. Yes theirs flyingstart but that covers such a small percentage. There are in our area no groups run by health visitors. No time or money. It's all a link.

But also ASD needs to be given more research time. Not for vacations to increase but because it needs and deserves it in its own right.

I've given up arguing with anti vaxxers on my role as a gp. You can't argue with stupid. But I do pro actively contact the kids when they turn 18 and offer them imms.

Polio is no longer vaccinated against. Why? - because it has been eradicated by the vaccination programme.
Polio has NOT been eradicated
Anti Vaxxers have managed to froth up clerics in the countries that still have it to block the programme
and are putting the whole world at risk.
Jerks

people who smoke put others at risk of passive smoking with smoking related illness being the number one killer. Why all the focus on vaccines when the smoking is a daily occurence?

We don't allow people to smoke in classrooms, at parent and baby groups, on public transport, at nurseries...

Vaccines need to be explained better.

The mechanism is taught in schools, there are public info campaigns- I doubt any medication is better understood by the public than vaccination. If facts alone could cure the social contagion of antivax then it would already be cured.

I feel that it's not the anti vac people's fault

If a child dies because of a direct choice someone made, then they are culpable. I agree that responsibility for the general problem should be laid much more at the door of irresponsible press than poorly educated parents.

I wish the law was such that Melanie Phillips could face jail time.

The anti-vaxx phenomenon is the result of the privilege of living in a wealthy part of the world where the vast, vast majority of rational parents get their kids vaccinated, which in turn protects those who genuinely cannot be vaccinated as well as those children with idiot parents who can rely on the rest of us vaccinating our kids to keep theirs safe.

Meanwhile, in the developing world there are parents who would saw their right arms off for the chance to access a free programme that stops their kids from dying. I bet there aren't that many anti-vaxxers in sub-Saharan Africa.

Perhaps look deeper

And we’re off to the whale.to races.

Oh god not this again. Surely you've all realised by now that nobody ever convinces anyone of anything on these threads and it just goes on and on with people shouting quotes and statistics and insults at each other.

It's not a high horse, it's scientific fact!

The figures I've seen for Europe were 13,000 cases, 38 deaths across 4 countries (mainly in Romania, none in UK).

Full, up to date, Europe Data set
ecdc.europa.eu/sites/portal/files/documents/measles-rubella-monthly-monitoring-report-december-2018.pdf

Blame the idiots who left the boarders wide open and not checking Europeans and International migrants for current infections and diseases before entering the country!

Blame the idiots who left the boarders wide open and not checking Europeans and International migrants for current infections and diseases before entering the country!
Sorry, WHAT ?
Are you suggesting blood testing everybody at Heathrow
when Brits come back from holidays to locations that have exciting diseases?
Like Malaria and TB and yellow fever ?

@Ta1kinpeace no, but at least show evidence that they've been vaccinated or have got the all clear from their doctors before travelling! Yellow Fever requires proof of certification before entering he country anyway.

@MummySharkDoDo What's the point of that "news" story?
Worst case of measles he's ever seen

Whenlife
Brits are no longer vaccinated against TB or Polio
There is no malaria vaccine
Some folks refuse to get vaccinated against measles

Should BRITS be blood checked when they come back from holidays to countries where they are endemic

again Jenny apologies, I read the second point wrongly again. Lots of excuses around being somewhat shattered but actually, should have re-read before posting!
I do stand by my point though, it is just better diagnosed now.

Some of us prefer Autistic Spectrum Condition rather than Disorder.
Thank you.

Blame the idiots who left the boarders wide open

Just what the world needs: racists who can't spell.

as others said - infections - if brought into the country are more likely to come from British returning from elsewhere. (I am tempted to threaten the next person talking about antivaxx support research with dropping - some - of my research & books on autism on their foot!!!! translation - because I find reading extensive journal articles & books on line I print them out - folders and folders & folders full)

Perhaps look deeper

And we’re off to the whale.to races

That response make far more sense than the critics of the cochrane collaboration who were incidentally part of the board www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/end-scientific-integrity-cochrane-collaboration-expels-critic-big-pharma-4-other-

Clearly there is the other side to the story but to research deeper makes sense as you get a better picture.

worst case of measles the GP has ever seen

1. Depends on GP's experience. Maybe they haven't seen many kids with measles.

1. Hardly a terrible case of measles, they boy seemed fine apart from sniffles according to his mum.

1. If it were a bad case of measles, they boy would likely suffer some long term damage or even death.

Yes, immunised people can catch diseases but it will be a very mild, non life threatening case. And non immunised people can be in contact and never catch it because human biology is a funny thing.

You could be in a car crash without a seatbelt and not be badly injured. But wearing the belt will increase your chances of being safe. You don't hear the internet bleating that seatbelts are a bad idea.