Happy now antivaccers?

[viques]

60,000 cases of measles in Europe in the last 12 months.

72 deaths.

Preventable.

both my partner and myself are currently doing research on it

I love the way in which "Googling random shit" is now "research".

There's a Cochrane review:

www.cochrane.org/CD004407/ARI_using-combined-vaccine-protection-children-against-measles-mumps-and-rubella

What on earth is your "research" going to consist of beyond "yep, there's a Cochrane review?"

Well for a start they might want to research the following from the cochrane review

Authors' conclusions:
The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

Antivaxxers are cult like.

I have a child with lung disease who couldn't medically have his jabs on time.

He relied (he's had them all now) on herd immunisation and one of those uneducated fools could of killed him.

They basically think their children are more special then our run of the mill ones.

Yes. They should be persecuted. They are a danger to society.

vaccines carry a risk but so does not vaccinating. The difference is, the first one protects those around you and the second one doesn’t.

Some great antivaxx memes out there. Mainly on reddit (where these have been pilfered from):

cheezburger.com/6822917/20-memes-that-hilariously-argue-with-anti-vaxxer-logic

I am not sure what you think insulting parents who are trying to do what they think is best is going to achieve.

By that measure everyone is 'trying to do what they think is best'. Most child abusers are not monsters- they are people with complex needs and low skills who make poor choices and fail their children.

Or course we can have sympathy for the difficulties they may have had or lament their lack of capacity, but ultimately they are responsible for their choices.

Of course choosing not to vaccinate is much less risky than many forms of neglect. I don't think it should result in state intervention, but it is not a neutral choice. It's harming kids and putting others at risk- it should rightly be condemned.

The article cited above. Child was vaccinated. It was the worse case the doctor had ever seen. All he had was a rash, and a bit of the sniffles. Because he was vaccinated it was mild. Because of vaccination rates in the UK the doctor had never seen a bad case of measles, and still hasn't. Maybe read the article that way, instead of jumping on the fact that vaccinated children can also have the disease still? The vaccination decreases the severity of the outbreaks

@civicxx So a child who hasn't been vaccinated who then gets measles should then not receive medical treatment for it, even though the child had no choice in the matter ? What a disgusting individual you are.

For what it's worth, my children are vaccinated, as I believe any benefits outweigh the risks. But there are risks. Medical treatment in society should be a choice, not forced. And people who choose to exercise bodily autonomy ( or on behalf of their children) should not be excluded from society. .

Civic did you read that vacknin your head before posting?

unlike most parents, we actually want to know what gets infected in to our children's bodies

Get off your high horse making out that people who vaccinate don't care!

I suppose you only eat organic vegetables and meat you raised yourself, dont take any medication etc?

Do you really think you know better tham hundreds of thousands of medical professionals because you can read a list of ingredients and Google them?

Unlike antivaccers i dont want my child to die of a preventable disease, or give it to anyone else.

Jenny17. That article appears to be thirty years old.

It's not really as simple as they either get autism or they die though is it? They might not get either.

This reads like you actually think there is a link between vaccines and autism and didn’t get that the poster who brought it up (they’d rather their child die than be autistic like mine) was not suggesting this?
I hope I’m wrong.

And again, Jenny, carefully selected parts of a report. That’s not the only thing the Cochran’s review says.

I have a STEM PhD and I teach risk assessment and measurement. I still find the primary literature on vaccine safety (which I have access to) complex and difficult. Mean while, antivax “researchers” unburdened by education cherry pick sentences.

TTCI If your little baby was dying and you rushed them to A&E the doctors would be giving them all sorts of injections to try and save their life. I cannot see you standing there saying “Wait a minute, I want to see the ingredients list,” and I cannot see the doctors pausing to run every decision by you.
You would be begging them to do everything they could to save your precious baby, and you wouldn’t give a shiny shit what was in those injections.
But if your baby gets encephalitis as a result of having measles then you could beg the doctors all you like, they wouldn’t be able to do anything to save your baby.
The doctors know this, so they have created a vaccine to prevent it happening in the first place.
I have never understood why people doubt doctors when it comes to preventing illness and death, yet run to them when it comes to treating it. Surely you either trust them or you don’t?

I do question the

1. number of vaccines, the vaccine schedule has increased exponentially with the side effects close to or as bad as the disease vaccinating against. Reports of side effects are not being documented.

2. Autism isn't caused by vaccines but until the can say why the rate has increased fivefold bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/3/10/e003219/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1 people will remain concerned.

3. vaccine immunity is not lifelong, which means the herd immunity relied is questionable

4. one of the reason the rate of vaccinating is low in Europe is becuase in Ukraine there was a death from vaccine www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/teenagers-death-spurs-vaccination-questions-fears-30691.html I've not heard of another case sounds like an isolated incidence?

5. a lot of vaccination rates across the world are going down.

6. vaccine compensation has given out lots of money in UK and USA it's useful to see that picture as it shows what vaccines are being cited as having the most side effects.

Some may silence people by calling them stupid, comparing to child abusers etc is a lazy way to win an argument with discussion. One poster claims only looking at one article is enough research, that does not sound like a good argument. Wider research sounds more pragmatic especially when there are reports that the trials the research paper is based on is biased and vaccine manufactures are being sued (there is an act the prevents vaccine manufactures from being sued for chicken pox does not fall under that) thevaccinereaction.org/2018/09/merck-sued-over-zostavax-related-injury/

Medical professionals are just following what is advised and are financially incentivised for your child to be vaccinated.

It does not make sense to stifle discussion nor whip up fear nor take away civil rights. This is not to say the case for vaccinating or not vaccinating has been made yet.

There’s a minimal risk of death or life changing injury with every surgery done under general anaesthetic.

Would anti-vaxxers refuse vital surgery because of those negligible risks?

It’s the same with vaccinating. Do something necessary to protect your health or refuse to do it because there’s a 0.001% chance something bad might happen.

That article appears to be thirty years old
@gilead I wasn't the first poster of the reticle so I'm not sure I understand your point. If the article is 30 years old please inform the first person that posted as I only responded.

And again, Jenny, carefully selected parts of a report. That’s not the only thing the Cochran’s review says
@gilead again what? What is your point again? it's clear I wasn't suggesting that was all that the report said only that the report had things that one might want to do some further research based on authors conclusion.

Please stop trying to misrepresent things.

Would anti-vaxxers refuse vital surgery because of those negligible risks?
They would have a choice, nobody has surgery for the general benefit of the public.

It’s the same with vaccinating. Do something necessary to protect your health or refuse to do it because there’s a 0.001% chance something bad might happen
Is that an actual statistic? I think that what some people are saying that the "something bad" is not being recorded fully.

Polio is no longer vaccinated against. Why? - because it has been eradicated by the vaccination programme.

Children are bombarded with millions of viruses and bacteria all day long. A few more injected with a positive intent is not going to make much difference - just a piss in the sea.

Vaccination is the biggest public health success story since clean water supplies.

Jenny Apologies, didn't realise it wasn't you.
However, I'm autistic so don't you dare accuse me of trying to misrepresent things. I am 60. Most of the vaccines were not around when I was a child. MMR certainly wasn't. Autism is not caused by vaccines and any simpleton would work out that the five fold increase you cite is due to comprehension of the Autism spectrum being greater than it was 30 odd years ago. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't cite me as a caution. I'm intelligent and have validity, my Autism has a lot to do with that.

One poster claims only looking at one article is enough research

If that is aimed at me, then as a general hint: showing you have no idea what the Cochran collaboration is and regarding their output as “articles” shows your ignorance of medical research.

If vaccines were found to cause autism that would be a monumental breakthrough for autism research. It wouldn’t be swept under the carpet.