Would you have children if you were me?

[Kyratzis]

I know this isn't a question anyone else can answer for me, and there are lots of similar threads on here (I've read them all!) So I don't know how helpful starting another one will be, but here goes.

I'm in my late 30s, so it's decision time. I'm married, we've been together ages and are happy just the two of us. Both totally ambivalent about whether we want children or not. I've never been someone who wants or is interested in children, but nor am I someone who really strongly doesn't want them. Most of our friends have kids and we enjoy spending time with them, but not so much that it makes us want them too.

I have a lot of interests and am always very busy, and I'm a writer at the very beginning of my career (first book came out this year). I know that if I don't have children, I'll be very happy just carrying on as I am, and will obviously have a lot more time to write, which is my total passion, though not my day job. I know loads of people combine creative work with children, but I have a feeling that it would fall by the wayside given that I probably can't make a living doing it (I'm a poet, so not going to be rocketing up the bestseller lists any time soon).

When I put it down in writing like this, I can't see why I WOULD have children, but there is still something in the back of my mind that can't commit and say, nope, definitely not doing it. I think it's because I'm really close to my family so don't understand why I don't want to, and also I think, deep down, that there's a voice inside me telling me that I'm a bad person for not wanting them. I don't agree with that voice, but it's there nonetheless!

I have to say, I always feel a little bit uncomfortable when lots of parents tell others not to have children because it's difficult.

I mean, I get the instinct; you're in the absolute thick of it, and unlike you I'll never really know how exhausting and difficult life is - I'm also coming at it from the point of view of trying and failing, unlike the OP.

But the grass isn't always greener/easier/happier on the other side, and the older you get, the more your regret or vague feeling of something being missing can grow too.

I don't think it should be "would you find it easy" but "would you like one, do you want one around".

Sorry if that doesn't make sense or offends anyone - I just think it's so easy to say "god no" when you're exhausted and tired, while knowing deep down that you have a family and taking all the good bits for granted, if that makes sense.

OP, you're a writer. Can you create some stories and push yourself into a real imaginary scenarios? Really imagine it, see how they make you feel.

NopeNi I know what you mean and it does make sense. But I have been imagining every aspect of having a child/teenager/older family vividly for a long time now as part of the decision process.

I think most people's answers have been more considered than just "oh no, don't do, it's knackering".

Agree the wanting a child can grow, I’d be wary of going near using all the nos in here as a reason

And also agree that you shouldn’t judge it by what you think about children who are not your own

I just think it's so easy to say "god no" when you're exhausted and tired, while knowing deep down that you have a family and taking all the good bits for granted, if that makes sense.

This is true. I appreciate I am very lucky to have the family I always wanted.

The thing is, it splits your life into before and after and affects everything and not always in a good way. I think if you really want kids it's definitely worth it, but if you're not sure then I can see why you'd be wary, and how do you know whether you're far enough into wanting them (or indeed, wanting more than you already have) for it to be worth it?

"I think most people's answers have been more considered than just "oh no, don't do, it's knackering"."

Yes my post was certainly more considered than that. However, in the interests of balance I will share the pros and cons. Please remember that DH and I always wanted children so our experience may have been different if one or both had been ambivalent.

Pros:

• we both love our son more than words can say, he brings a huge amount of joy to our lives (and has brought joy to our extended families too - although more on that later), it's absolutely wonderful to see him grow, develop, learn and discover the world
• It's a wonderful feeling to know that he loves us and needs us, a huge responsibility but also heart-melting and a big sense of pride to feel that we are doing ok at raising him! I feel a fierce sense of clarity and confidence in many ways, I was always pretty no-nonsense but am even more so now
• it's lovely seeing DH be a father, sometimes I get frustrated with him and he is not as patient as I would like, but on the whole he is wonderful
• I like the idea that when I grow old and die I will leave DS (and possible other children) behind, rather than nothing - there are other ways to have an impact on the world of course - but I suppose I feel it's how things should be (for me, not that everyone must do it)

Cons

• I hated pregnancy, it was physically and emotionally difficult
• Labour was traumatic and I had a tough time afterwards (episiotomy and couldn't sit for weeks, infection that meant I had to stay in hospital for a while, then mastitis, felt like I'd been hit by several buses tbh)
• DS has had various health issues that have made his and our lives more difficult, these have been minor compared to some disabilities and illness that babies and children can have, but still taken their toll
• he was a truly terrible sleeper and it nearly broke us
• something significant that we didn't anticipate: having our own child has thrown up some big issues with our own parents. Particularly DH's but it hasn't all been plain sailing with mine either. This has added emotional strain to an already difficult time. And we don't have a lot of help from family. The help we do have is not always completely helpful and it comes with a cost.
• our relationship has suffered massively. We both admit that our DS is the priority now, which is as things should be (at least in the beginning) but we are number two to each other. Sleep deprivation and stress and no/little time for ourselves and each other have resulted in horrific arguments and genuinely asking ourselves whether we want to split or keep trying. We are working on it.
• in addition to the confidence I mentioned in the pros list, I also feel a constant anxiety about DS, it's stressful trying to work out what's up and how to fix it, whether we are doing the right thing, etc. That never really goes away.
• it's completely relentless. Work, childcare, household chores. That's the hardest bit. Especially if you don't have helpful family nearby or a lot of money for paid childcare during non-working time.

Well that's my list and it's not in favour of children but in spite of all that I still want a second 🙈 I'm aware that I'm crazy but I still want one.

If you want one, you know. If you don't know, you don't want one.

It’s been mentioned already but I think it’s really worth emphasising that you may get a child with SEN.

Getting pregnant is like writing a blank cheque to the universe, and by god it cashes it and you have no control over it.

I have been out of work for 8 years because there is simply no way DS1 would have coped if I had worked. I used to have a career and a highly paid job!

Now I am tentatively looking at getting back in to work and no one wants to hire a middle aged woman who hasn’t worked for years. I feel on the scrap heap in my mid 40s. I never planned to give up work but there was no choice.

Oh I forgot another con.
Career. I don't give a shit about it any more. Well I do. I want a better career but I don't have the mental energy for it.

IME, the absolute worse thing about having a child with SEN is the knowing from a young age, but because it’s not physical and no one can see it some people can be awful to you about ‘oh this isn’t the first human child / second coming’ comments, or the digs about PFB’s.

I’ve seen other parents completely broken by a diagnosis because they look back at their child’s younger life and they made decisions they deeply regret but they had no support, people around them just saying oh that baby is too clingy, you need to grow a backbone etc.

You have to centre that child the second it is born because their needs exist right away and that is just awful for parents who feel that children ought to bend to / fit in with the parents rather than the other way round.

Obviously once they are older and school age the relentless fights begin, insisting on accomodations, reminding people of the diagnosis, the number of fucking times I’ve been into school to discuss lunchtime like oh my fuck just please, remember, or have a better system for having stuff written down because we had this conversation every week since Sep I’m losing my goddamn mind people

BUT. None of that is as bad, for me, as those early days when I thought maybe I was just overly precious and mental and I was abandoned by some family and friends for being too difficult about naps / meeting locations / life.

I used to feel adamant that I didn’t want children. I liked my life as it was. Then within the space of a few years I totally changed my mind. I realised that having children was something I really wanted. I was 31 when I felt ready but unfortunately it took 4 years and ivf before I had my first child. At many points I thought it would never happen. Are you sure you won’t suddenly decide you really want children as was in my case OP?

Batteries

Are you sure you won’t suddenly decide you really want children as was in my case OP?

She's not talking about getting sterilised. If that happens, it happens.
It would be a bit silly to have a child you don't currently want, just in case in a few years you decide you do want one.

Batteries, I'm in a similar situation.

Derailing the thread but batteries - I agree - it’s the months/years of people making you doubt your own judgement and decisions and being told you are wrong in various ways and it’s all in your head that breaks you. I had that with a physical illness but one that couldn’t easily be diagnosed.
Op when you have kids your life is no longer your own - it can be bloody hard. I wouldn’t change it though. I’d have hated missing out on it.

Trills. Op is late 30s. Quite often if people do change their mind it’s too late. Women are just not that fertile in their 40s.

@batteriesallgone totally agree and it goes on for years. Even when you have a formal diagnosis. 😡😨

I've not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said, but I was similar to you and I now have two daughters (5 and 3). For me it wasn't about having children, but about having grown up offspring. I could imagine a life without children but I couldn't imagine a life without having someone visit on a Sunday for me to cook lunch for, or for me to go to the theatre with, or to come round at Christmas. While I appreciate that having children does not guarantee these things and that they are obtainable without children, I couldn't imagine a life without adult children with their own lives and their own partners being a part of my family unit.

You sound thorough and realistic in considering your options.

I think you’re right to be concerned that should you have DC it would be very hard to parent, keep your job AND continue with your creative work, at least in the early years. Even with a partner fully sharing the parenting and domestic work.

In addition to the possibility of SEN, there's also the possibility of physical problems. Disability or life long chronic illness. That's what really scares me about no 2, I couldn't do the hospital and diagnosis and this all over again. It's a roll of the dice.

I’m fine by the way - I always wanted kids, I adore my children, and I have wonderful in laws. My MIL always always supported and believed us even when no one else did and just knowing there’s someone on your team helps immensely.

Just thought I’d share because very often people don’t talk about this stuff, it’s all so polarised in press, either it’s ‘my special shining star sent to me because I’m such an amazing parent’ or ‘my violent child is now bigger than me I’m scared’ and you can’t imagine yourself being either, really.

I never wanted kids, until my niece was born! It took the best part of a year and lots of tests to get pregnant

I was the opposite! Really wanted kids but had fertility problems couldn't conceive IVF etc. Then my nephew was born - At a point I thought there was zero chance of my becoming an auntie, my db left it late - and I saw how knackering it was for them and I'm not sure how good a mother I'd have been really.

My husband and I always knew we wanted kids. We have two and love them more than anything (and would have them again in a heartbeat), but parenthood has been the hardest thing we've ever done. My honest feeling is that if we can find it so hard coming from a place where there wasn't a doubt in our minds that we wanted them, I can't imagine doing it when we weren't absolutely sure it's what we wanted. Kids are wonderful, but they're really, really hard work. And for us, 100% worth it. But if you like your life as it is, and you're not sure you want them? I wouldn't do it.

I can't force you with your decisions in life. Its up to you if you will take it as positive or negative comment.

I don’t think how much you wanted DC is necessarily one of the main factors affecting how you feel after becoming a parent.

Even when you have a diagnosis, you go for assessments for therapy they need and you're told that they don't provide that service. They sign you off and you still have a child that needs help and no one will provide for them. Instead of being a mother you are the occupational therapist, sensory disorder therapist, dyspraxia therapist, reading teacher, continence nurse, emotional therapist, relationship counsellor, asc specialist and adhd specialist. You have to do this and sometimes your child resents you because they just want a Mum not someone making them do things they find hard. You know they'd listen better and try harder for the actual therapist because you're just their mum, even though you can't be just their mum otherwise they won't be able to live an independent life.