Jeremy Corbyn

[PingusPaws]

I think he could be a great principled Prime Minister.

He wants to stop the selling off of the NHS and pump money into it. Everyone is equal when it comes to treatment no matter how much money you have The NHS is a gold standard of excellence for all.

The Tories/May want to privatise the NHS. So if you don't have a enough money to pay for private treatment, you will die. Good times ahead if the Tories are in power...

Labour wants More Social Housing, for the young, hard working and disadvantaged, which now also includes anyone under 30, who will not be able to raise a deposit on a average family home.

Rightful payments will made to those who are disabled, or not able to work. Under the Tories there were many legitimate benefits payments rejected to those who had terminal cancer and other life limiting illnesses, The guardian highlighted this issue.

Also BREXIT

What say you?

I don't think he personally is anti semitic toward our Jewish community. He is certainly sympathetic to the plight of those oppressed by the state of Israel and this has not won him friends in the Jewish community

So how about when he said about British 'Zionists' (using the term interchangeably for Jews) that "having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony, either.”

It wasn’t their ideology he attacked, but what he deemed their lack of Englishness—that “Zionists” might live in Britain for a very long time, even all their lives, and still remain alien, unable to grasp either history or irony.

Accusing Jews of being more loyal to the state of Israel has long been an anti semitic trope. It's a core part of the IHRA definition

How about the anti semitic mural he defended?

What has a picture of hook nosed Jews controlling the world's money got to do with the state of Israel?

And aside from the fact I'm a British Jew, I'm also beyond gutted that I can't see any viable challenge to the Tories

Corbynistas can sing their disciple's name as much as they like, but this is what it comes down to. The man has a government on its knees, mishandling the biggest crisis facing the country since WW2, and he's focusing on issuing statements about funding the BBC? And this is how he positions himself as a safe paid of hands to run the country? Nope. Don't buy it. He doesn't want the job. Therefore he's not fit to lead.

I want a Labour leader who's a credible opposition to the Tories. I don't want a Tory government. But JC is manna from heaven as far as the Tories are concerned. They can fuck up as much as they like, and they still won't lose a GE as long as JC is LOTO. Their only threat is the infighting amongst themselves - not the actual opposition.

I actually agree and have Said it all along. Corbyn doesn't wish to be prime minister and all that entails, not during Brexit negotiations. He does just enough to keep certain folks happy, with the daft promises of some unaffordable things, then ensures he also does just enough to keep him out of office.

Whatever he is, he's not an idiot. He knows full well the impact of some of his policies, speeches, and the way he responds to some things. He knows exactly what he's doing, he's a rabble rousing back bencher by trade, and to be fair he can be good at it.

But being rhe prime minister, and managing the shit storm that is Brexit, isn't something that man wants. Being in opposition is exactly where he wants to be.

I can't understand why some folks are so taken by the false promise of a few extra quid, that they will turn their head away from the issues the party faces, or the bald fact he doesn't wish to be prime minister right now.

Totally agree bluntness

I agree bananafish

I strongly suspect this thread didn't go the way the op envisaged. I wonder if she will come back, or if her and the other poster are simply direct messaging each other like mad that we are all a bunch of hysterical nutters and only their opinion matters.

The lack of support speaks volumes. When a party starts to be seen first And foremost as sexist, anti Semitic, terrorist sympathisers, their policies get lost. It doesn't matter what they promise, because most right minded people walk away from it, and labours suppoet is waning.

They need to take a decisive hand to cut this out their party and get the focus back on their policies, Corbyn, whatever his personal views are, has been shown to be incapable or unwilling to do that. I'm unsure which, but it is factually one or the other.

Many folks don't like the tories, some hate them, but let's be honest, it's due to their policies, their perceived ability, or what they represent, as it should be in politics, not becayse they are viewed as sexist, anti Semitic terrorist sympathisers. Many things have been said about Theresa May, but morally corrupt is not one of them.

We all would like a credible opposition, irrelevant of what side your politics lie on, becayse it's healthy for the government, but it's becoming almost shameful to support labour, because it will be seen by many as you also agree with anti semitism, or sexism, or are a terrorist sympathiser. Becayse you are able to turn a blind eye to it. Even worse if you try to excuse it or justify it.

What is it they say? You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Of course there are many criticisms of the tories with regard to being elitist, sexist, disablist etc etc etc and many people would absolutely describe Theresa May as morally corrupt.

Nobody thinks the Labour Party is perfect, ditto the tories. We all get to vote on what is most important to us.

Mud slinging and gutter politics seem to be what this thread has descended into.

I really don't think the first thing the general population think of when they think Tory is sexist and disabilist, no matter how much you'd like to think it. We have a female prime minister ffs.

Elitist maybe, nor is the general view point may is morally corrupt. I'm not doubting some people do think it, but it's not constant headlines about them, like we see about Corbyn and labour in regards to sexism, anti semitism and terrorist actitivies,

I think you know that, and it's not gutter politics or mud slinging to address the very real issues the Labour Party currently face.

To not address it, is very wrong indeed. We can't stand by and let it go uncommented.

That's how evil proliferates.

It has been estimated that the policies announced at the Labour conference will cost around £190 billion pounds (not by them, obvs).

Where is this money going to come from OP?

Thanks for the helpful explanation that Theresa May is female and therefore the conservatives cannot be guilty of sexism.

What comes to mind when you mention the Tory party clearly depends on who you ask.

I am a classic swinging voter. My political leaning is summed up as “don’t care who they are, don’t them stay in government more than 2 terms”.

There is nothing on God’s earth that could convince me to vote for Corbyn. I have dual nationality and voted Labour in my last hole country election. If there was a sensible UK Labour I’d be there with bells on, but he comes across as creepy and smug to me.

On these threads whenever Corbyn devotees deny any antisemitism and ask for examples, and whenever these examples are proffered, there is generally a stony silence - the 'because Palestine' tends to dry up as a response to anti semitic incidents within the Labour party that have absolutely nothing to do with the Israeli government at all.

It's always back to whataboutery with islamophobia or ethically dubious actions within the Tory party. Which may well be factually correct, but that doesn't address the issues within the Labour party.

So how about when he said about British 'Zionists' (using the term interchangeably for Jews)

No, he didn't use the word interchangeably. Surely you understand the difference?

The way that Zionists treat the Palestinian people is an utter disgrace. That's not an attack on Jews, it's a fact about a small number of people that seek to terrorise another group. No one would call you Islamophobic for criticising Isis, this is no different.

I'd be happy to hear your views on the Tory support of Viktor Orban.

Whilst Corbyn continues to call out terrorists and dictators, the Tories continue to cosy up to them. But somehow you're ok with that?

the Tories continue to cosy up to them. But somehow you're ok with that?

Firstly no one has said they are ok about it. It isn't what this thread is about however so maybe start another one.

Secondly are you sure he is always happy to call out all dictators and terrorists?

I read this as Jeremy Kyle!! Was confused to the replies! 😂😂 I have been off work for too long! Not long before my ankle heals, surely?

No, he didn't use the word interchangeably. Surely you understand the difference?

The way that Zionists treat the Palestinian people is an utter disgrace. That's not an attack on Jews, it's a fact about a small number of people that seek to terrorise another group. No one would call you Islamophobic for criticising Isis, this is no different.

Of course

I am Jewish. I am not a Zionist.

But in Corbyn's own words

"I am now more careful with how I might use the term ‘Zionist’ because a once self-identifying political term has been increasingly hijacked by antisemites as code for Jews.”

See also the fact that the Chakrabarti report into antisemitism in the Labour party detailed “the way in which the word ‘Zionist’ has been used personally, abusively, or as a euphemism for ‘Jew’”

Simon Hattenstone wrote an article in the Guardian not long afterwards:

I still don't believe Corbyn is antisemitic – but his 'irony' comments unquestionably were

I still don’t believe (or would like not to believe) that he is an antisemite, but what the Labour leader said at a London conference convened by the Palestinian Return Centre in 2013 is unquestionably antisemitic

It is unclear what the irony in question is. But it is irrelevant. To generalise about any race or religion is discriminatory. And if there were ever a clear example of somebody conflating Zionist with Jews, this appears to be it. Let’s play the traditional “swap the minority” game. Instead of “Zionists” let’s make it, say, Muslims or African-Caribbeans or Asians or Irish needing lessons in history or irony. Not nice, eh?

And what exactly does he mean by Zionists who have spent all or most of their lives in this country? Today the party insisted that Corbyn had been quoted out of context and that he had been referring to “Jewish and non-Jewish activists”. Maybe. But it sounds pretty much like he was talking about British Jews to me. And In her 2016 report on antisemitism in the Labour party, Shami Chakrabarti wrote: “Crucially, I have heard testimony and heard for myself first hand, the way in which the word ‘Zionist’ has been used personally, abusively, or as a euphemism for ‘Jew’, even in relation to some people with no stated position or even a critical position on the historic formation or development of modern Israel. This has clearly happened so often over a number of years as to raise some alarm bells in Jewish communities.” She concluded: “My advice to critics of the Israeli state and/or government is to use the term ‘Zionist’ advisedly, carefully and never euphemistically or as part of personal abuse.”

Also:

Meanwhile, Labour’s new code of conduct states that the use of the word Zionism “euphemistically or as part of any personal abuse” may “provide evidence of antisemitic intent”. On both fronts, if Corbyn said the same thing today he would be in breach of his own party’s guidance.

best laugh I've had today - Thank You PingusPaws

@SJS45 well you couldn't have me more wrong.
I'm no young student. I'm a stahm who has 2 DC one of whom is severally disabled. In fact that's what prompted me to post this thread, after hearing Jeremy talking about his dedication to help all of society including those who are most vulnerable, it made me feel more optimistic about my DC future prospects.

The Tories, who farmed out the decisions made being about those who are entitled to disability payments to a private company, made an absolute fuck up things and like I said in my OP people with terminal cancer where denied payments. I would hope nobody will have to suffer that awful fate in the future.

I'm no Labour Bot or party shill, just sharing my thoughts on my situation and my reasoning for supporting Labour.

It's like nobody wants to be holding the stinking turd when the music stops

Exactly. They all want May to carry this through to its conclusion, whatever that may be. To a man, that's what they wish. Literally to a man,

I genuinely don't think she's doing it for political gain, I think she will retire from politics once it's done. She's knowingly ending her career on it, becayse the British public stupidly voted for it and she's seeing that wish through.

Literally none of the others are man enough to stand up and do it, they are simply using the situation for political gain and covering their own arses. Then when she's done they will fight for leadership.

It's sickening really,

Please do not confuse Corbyn with Labour Politics. He may be the Labour leader (haha, I still find that funny!) but his politics are Socialist. I accept that he wasn't personally responsible for the huge debt Labour managed to saddle the UK with or the War that Labour led us into which incidentally killed and disabled so many parents DC. Do you really wish this country to be under Socialist Control, would you really use your vote to destroy the creativity and ambition of our future generations by subjecting them to a life of Socialism. We may as well all become Stepford Wives and give up any ambitions we have.