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Victoria Derbyshire today - sharing birthing experiences online are scaring other women

130 replies

JoggerBottom · 13/09/2018 10:16

Hi all,

VD is due to discuss that online sharing of your birthing experience is frightening to women and pregnant women to the point of developing a phobia.

I have shared my experience on here and came to MN for advice from others when pregnant with DD2. I went overdue and, I have to admit, became pretty scared. I read loads of overdue / induction threads and I think it did add to my fear a little...but the fear was already there IYSWIM?

What are your views on this? Did reading other birth experiences affect you when pregnant?

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 14/09/2018 15:27

I also had a bad experience with my midwife, she was useless tbh.

This midwife is obviously anti the idea of women making informed choices.

tolerable · 14/09/2018 17:36

to be honest i know little at all about it...but VD sounds far worse :)

Ellegeebee · 14/09/2018 17:48

NothingOnTellyAgain you are wrong, the midwife is absolutely not anti women making informed choices. The press have honed in on one suggestion that women with a fear of childbirth who search the internet may be triggered further by being taken immediately to horrific birth stories on Internet forums. The midwife is clearly passionate about perinatal mental health and maternity services and improvements that need to be made. If you listen to her on Radio Humberside later that day you’ll get a better picture. She starts at about 2hours10 minutes in.
www.bbc.co.uk/radio/play/p06jbfj8

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2018 18:52

This really pisses me off.

The way this is framed from the very start is in a way which is deeply anti-women.

It puts forward the idea that fear of childbirth is a modern thing, that women who are being silly, stupid, weak and snowflakey have suddenly started doing because of the internet. And by implication they should be tough like women in the past.

A doctor called Dr. Louis Victor Marcé wrote the following regarding fears of mothers to be in a book:
“If they are giving birth for the first time, waiting for unknown pain worries them beyond all measure and they are plunged into an indescribable state of anxiety. If they are already mothers, they are terrified by the memory of the past and the prospect of the future; they are privately convinced that they are going to die from the ordeal which awaits them”.
Marcé added that “this idea becomes absolutely fixed in their heads and triggers a melancholy frame of mind which takes over all their thoughts”

The year it was written?

It is almost identical to the modern day (and very recently recognised) definition and condition of tokophobia.

The point being that woman have been scared of childbirth forever and its a natural thing. Because women die and go through enormous pain and life changing injuries as the result of childbirth. And frankly thats not weird or stupid to fear that. Its bloody normal!!!

Yes that it is much less likely than in the past to die, but birth injuries are still common - its one of the most dangerous days in a women's life when you look at the statistics.

Naturally women are going to be concerned about that. Women cope with anxiety and stress in different ways. Some women won't have any anxiety, but by the same token others will naturally be more prone to anxiety regardless of what they are told / not told. Cos thats how people are!

Also the idea that sharing stories on the internet is somehow scarer than women talking to each other in person or a culture of silence also makes my mind boggle. Why is it any different??? There have always been 'scaremongering stories' around and there has always been deep ignorance about childbirth.

It doesn't take into consideration how different personalities handle information either. For some, knowing a lot and being able to manage their anxiety through information helps, for others it has the exact opposite effect. One thing that has been found in studies, to contribute to post traumatic stress from childbirth (which leads to anxiety in a future pregnancy), has been women having too idealistic expectations of childbirth which don't match their experience. In other words, women who don't have anxiety, read Ina Gaskin and go in thinking they can breathe out a baby through positive mental attitude and they end up with forceps or a EMCS are particularly at risk of developing child birth fear in future pregnancies!!!!!

So women can't win, whatever they do really.

In addition to this, we have modern day concerns and pressures. Things like wards being understaffed, poor previous birth experiences, issues over consent, highly medicalised births in a strange setting, poor communication, having babies later and having more complex pregnancies than in the past because of health issues like obesity. This are stress points that don't necessarily fit with women's instincts and and might be creating modern day issues which interfere with hormone production and the physical birthing process.

Honestly, 'discussion points' like this are just about 'putting women in their place'. They generally don't increase understanding, precisely because they frame it as an open question with two opinions - with the opening starting point being against women, leaving it for women to 'prove' the opposite. They barely touch the touch from a scientific / historical point of view which carefully examines the nature of birth fear.

The entire thing ends up, perversly creating a scenario which legitimises opinions which think women who have child birth fears are weak or stupid or hysterical merely by being a discussion where opinions are more important than anything else.

/Rant over.

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2018 18:57

FWIW the best I've seen on the subject is that women who go into childbirth not having rigid expectations and having flexibility in their birth plans, have birthing partners who know what the woman wants and have good relationship and communication with their midwife throughout the pregnancy and during the birth are most able to manage outside influences and the affect of anxiety - regardless of how well / bad the birth goes.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 14/09/2018 19:38

Great rant RedToothBrush Smile

Creatureofthenight · 14/09/2018 19:46

When I was pregnant, I deliberately read a range of birth stories on MN as I then felt sort of prepared for all eventualities. I’d rather know what can go both right and wrong than go into it completely unaware.

ItsLikeNew · 14/09/2018 20:44

RTB hits the nail on the head.

LardLizard · 14/09/2018 23:21

People shouldn’t be on the birth topic if they don’t want to read the real experiences

Mind you I avoid that topic like the plague when pregnant
And couldn’t even watch birth videos etc

And I actaully wish I was as I was totally unprepared

lovetherisingsun · 15/09/2018 06:54

I was only told absolutely wonderful stories. "it will be like this", "it was the best experience of my life", "I didn't even need pain control" etc etc etc, ad infinitum, from so many different women. No one had anything negative or even remotely bad to say about birth, the process, etc. So when it went to absolute shit, I was completely and utterly a) unprepared and b) massively depressed because I felt like I'd somehow failed. I wish I had prepared myself more by at least reading other people's stories online.

Sandstormbrewing · 15/09/2018 07:38

I was also told that you forget the pain and it's all worth it once that baby is in your arms. I cannot describe what a freak I felt when that wasn't how I felt.

SnuggyBuggy · 15/09/2018 07:47

I don't think we really respect childbirth these days. I'm not liking the suggestion that we should be good little women and keep quiet about our experiences.

ThanksHunkyJesus · 15/09/2018 07:55

In other words "women, shut up. Your painful and traumatic experiences are distressing to read about." No shit Sherlock. How do you think women feel living it? Against the expectation that birth is meant to be a fluffy magical experience?

userabcname · 15/09/2018 08:04

Disagree. I think we should all be sharing our birthing experiences. Childbirth is a life-changing event.

I had an awful, traumatic birth. I felt like a failure. Things happened I didn't even know could happen. It makes me furious reading things like 'giving birth naturally means you'll be up and about in a few hours' and 'if you can avoid an epidural you don't need a catheter' and 'recovery is so much easier if you don't have a c section.' Yeah ok, but what about if you tear so badly that you have to be patched up under GA and end up catheterised and on HDU? What about if you haemorrhage 4 litres of blood and are left with severe aneamia? What if you end up with sepsis and therefore are recovering from that, a tear, blood loss, a 38 hour labour and trying to care for a newborn? All happened to me and I took months to recover.

My experience was extreme but I share it because there was no reason it should have gone so badly and it did. I was in my 20s, healthy bmi, low risk pregnancy, no underlying medical issues. I always hope for women to have straightforward births but the reality is it can and does go wrong, often with no rhyme or reason. If I had been more aware of this, I would have felt less of a failure and less of a freak whose body can't cope with birthing a child.

Encouraging women to share positive stories is important but so too is encouraging women who had a difficult time. Telling us to put up and shut up doesn't help anyone. It's just another way women's health issues are minimised, made out to be exaggerations / hysteria and leave women in a terrible state, both emotionally and physically. Did you know that a severe tear can leave you with life-long bowel incontinence, sometimes requiring a stoma bag? I didn't, yet I know a woman going through exactly this. It needs to be discussed and people need to be aware of the risks they are taking.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 15/09/2018 08:10

I always point this out on these threads now, but women also come to birth with such different expectations. I always read the accounts of women saying they'd only ever heard wonderful things and expected birth to be magical with amazement - I had literally never heard anything positive about birth, except that you get a baby at the end. Other women, some grim misogynistic jokes I'd heard since childhood and popular culture (name a film with a calm waterbirth? - which isn't what I had, but they do exist!) had left me in no doubt that it was painful and a bit disgusting and that your body is permanently ruined by it. That's why I'm glad I did a hypnobirthing class even though I found it of only partial utility in labour itself - it balanced out some of the extreme fear I felt. Other women come from a very different place and need their expectations ramped down a bit. But I don't think it helps anyone to go into labour in terror or thinking nothing can go wrong.

willyloman · 15/09/2018 13:46

Certainly kept me up at night! But I also learned a lot x

Rebecca36 · 15/09/2018 15:11

VD eh? :-). Not very good initials (showing my age now).

When I first became pregnant I read quite a lot about giving birth but not 'birth stories' as such; I wasn't scared and believed everything would go smoothly. I suppose I was fortunate because it did but I was unflustered and confident all the way through pregnancy and birth was quite natural.

However I was unprepared for how dreadful I felt for quite a while afterwards.

So you can't win really.

labazs · 15/09/2018 17:27

i wish forums like this one had been about when i had my children. i was young and suffered greatly. the pain and personal intrusion i went through caused me great mental distress i was left totally shell shocked at the time i was in a violent marriage to an alcoholic so had no support from him the pregnancy was unplanned and i had never felt more scared or alone in my life. least with MN you have friends

urkidding · 16/09/2018 13:09

My experience was very similar to Meadowhay's and this was 27 years ago. There wasn't a room available, so I was put on ward. What was that about - are there no other rooms! Also what's with putting the baby next to you at night, you should have a choice. Basically, I did not get any sleep for 36 hours and was anxious in the night in case the baby needed anything. I was hurting and no one examined me properly, and it was only when I got home I was told the stitches hadn't dissolved properly and were infected by the visiting midwife who cut them. I was very assertive for the second baby, but it was very very smooth, she was born in 2 hours!
And I'm sure if men had a Cesarean, they would be looked after for a month.So ladies SHOUT about your experiences!

urkidding · 16/09/2018 13:12

Also Meadowhay , COMPLAIN to the hospital. Only, by complaining can we change things.

urkidding · 16/09/2018 13:28

And generally, not just for childbirth, nurses and everyone should call out consultants for their arrogance , of course they should ask for permission when they bring students around!
And the way breakfast is served at some god-forsaken time, the filthy toilets, etc show complete inconsideration for women.

The NHS is not free, I've paid for it all my life. Its about time doctors who leave the country after being trained pay the money back. And its about time people like pay fair taxes, instead of using tax havens like Rees-Mogg.

Miyah · 17/09/2018 09:42

Fear of childbirth is just so RATIONAL in every way. There are so many aspects to it as well.

I was left with birth trauma from my forceps birth. Of course a lot of it was traumatic by default- the agonising pain of contractions, the scariness of an emergency situation, being cut with scissors and permanently scarred (all standard parts of emergency forceps deliveries and not a ‘horror story’) but it was the way I was treated that made it 1000x worse. The unkind comments, little jokes made at your expense, being left exposed and given no privacy when it could have been easily afforded, the lack of consent, being spoken to like a stupid child- just the utter lack of respect and dignity. If I’d been treated differently I don’t think I would have considered an ELCS so strongly the second time round.

The idea that women shouldn’t share their lives experiences of the realities of childbirth is absolutely ridiculous. The problem really isn’t there. I also think choosing an ELCS is a completely valid choice, and shouldn’t be seen as some sort of ‘problem’ that needs fixing. A PP pointed out how likely obstetricians are choose a CS for their own birth. If they can be afforded that choice of weighing up the pros and cons, so should all women.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 17/09/2018 10:18

"COMPLAIN to the hospital. Only, by complaining can we change things."

This is another reason that they want to stop women talking to each other.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 17/09/2018 10:18

Flowers labazs

Figlessfig · 17/09/2018 10:31

It worries me that there is this societal assumption that the vast majority of births are “normal” or “natural”. It’s simply not true.

According to NHS figures for England, published in 2017, only 45% of births fell into this category. Therefore 55% of births were NOT normal or natural, and included c section, instrumental delivery, or tearing/episiotomy.

It makes perfect sense that women should be concerned about birth and make decisions accordingly.

My own second delivery was textbook. Completely natural, no tearing (just a very experienced midwife working with me in controlling contractions to allow her to gently peel my labia over baby’s head without tearing). Also no drugs (as gas and air made me throw up with every breath, and I didn’t want anything else as I wanted to keep my wits about me).

But it was still sheer hell. I forgot all about the pain when my baby came out and was plopped onto my belly, but, as most MNers know, childbirth HURTS LIKE FUCK. Like, you think you’re going to die, it hurts so much.

It makes no sense to send women into labour with a pack of lies about how great it’s going to be.