Victoria Derbyshire today - sharing birthing experiences online are scaring other women

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Hi all,

VD is due to discuss that online sharing of your birthing experience is frightening to women and pregnant women to the point of developing a phobia.

I have shared my experience on here and came to MN for advice from others when pregnant with DD2. I went overdue and, I have to admit, became pretty scared. I read loads of overdue / induction threads and I think it did add to my fear a little...but the fear was already there IYSWIM?

What are your views on this? Did reading other birth experiences affect you when pregnant?

Depends how you learn doesn’t it? I think sharing birth stories is mostly helpful after, cathartic. The only thing useful before was someone saying that you didn’t have that much control over what kind of birth you have, because you don’t. With hindsight it’s all obvious.

I’ve done a bit of googling myself tonight about the actual researcher at the University of Hull, as I thought the press have taken one small aspect of the study and tried to make a much bigger story out of it, this has been massively blown out of proportion. One of her actual quotes in response to today from Twitter: “We are trying to draw attention to the need for early detection of fear. We’re not saying that social media causes tokophobia but we can speculate from the fear of birth literature that birth media we are exposed to may play a part in setting birth up as a negative experience”.

www.theguardian.com/society/2008/jul/11/nhs.health1

No idea what the latest stats are but a decade ago 31 percent of female obgyns reportedly would prefer a c-section.

believe given you have shared your experience of crowning on MN I assume you are not against sharing experiences online then? you weren't wrong

I think it should be left up to the individual to not open and read the thread, article, listen to the show watch the show on birth experiences if they choose not too.

But I do not think anyone should shame, frighten or embarrass women into being quiet about it.

It's all coming out into the open now, and we need more women to feel they can talk about their experiences because....

Women giving birth is the dark corner that no light of equality has been shone on yet its appalling! Bad care, bad consultants...

No choices... Shaming... Too posh to push crap.. Women left with incontinence, physically marred in other ways... Left with ptsd, no counselling... Patronised... Etc etc etc.

So for god sake please don't shame us into being bloody quiet!! It's been taboo among the older generations.. Let us speak out.

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.
12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.
14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

I think either the 9th rule (we only talk about birth to scare young innocent women because we’re vile old witches) or rule 14 applies here.

Frankly I'm worried for people who aren't at least a little bit scared of childbirth. They won't know what's hit them!

Justine is on Newsnight later talking about this along with a midwife.

Yes it scared me. My birth experience was pretty bad, but it happens, you get through it (vast majority of us do, sadly a very small minority don’t) and you hold your baby in your arms. So whatever happens it’s a day/ a few days and for some lucky people a few hours or even minutes’

morethan YES.

I can only tell my two birth stories and neither were plan A births and although the labours and devilveries were vastly different, I experienced slow and difficult recoveries in totally different ways.

Getting through a VBAC after a EMCS did heal some of the mental hurts of the first birth. I experienced a ressurgence of anxiety during the pregnancy and good care in advance (1:1 visit to labour ward to discuss what could be done for my situation) and online support did help to empower me for a better birthing experience. Although my body suffered for it, mentally it was much better.

First time, one of the contributing factors in the trauma was that there was no obvious reason to believe I couldn't have a short, straightfoward birth with low level of intervention like my mother and grandmother. Ignorance or reliance on textbook information is not necessarily bliss.

An important point is that in the days of higher maternal mortality, there were less traumatic birth stories simply because the women with more traumatic experiences didn't survive to share them.

Before the NHS, birth took place in the community and wasn't remote. The average mother is around 30 when she has her own child before she experiences anything to do with birth beyond the heavily edited One Born type programs.

The ability to share personal stories about birth, pregnancy, breastfeeding etc are so valuable in helping women to understand the processes that their bodies go through.

When I was pregnant I had a huge appetite for birth stories, and I found them tremendously useful. A few ideas which I absorbed proved really handy to me:

Women who felt supported by birth partners and professionals tended to rate their birth experiences positively even if they had fairly serious complications. Those who were treated badly by the people around them usually felt awful afterward, even if the birth itself was relatively straightforward. The effect of that often lasted for years. I reckoned one of the best things you can do is try to get supportive people with you.

Birth is very unpredictable, so try not to cling onto any idea about how it's going to happen.

Women often have an instinct about how they need to labour. Listen to your body.

Learn about the most common interventions so you can make a better decision. You won't have time to educate yourself on the process if you're suddenly advised to have a c-section, for example.

Lots of other things I learned from other people's birth stories. I was really glad to have them available to me.

Reading MN when pregnant with my DTs and shitting myself about having to get them out of me was a massive help. Admittedly I mainly searched for positive c section stories, but reading hundreds of experiences turned it from an issue for me to something normal and gave me a belief we would all be ok.

Thank you to everyone who shared their story, it really made a difference to me.

Absolutely imperative for women to share stories of pre-natal care, of childbirth, of post-natal care, of PCOS, of endometriosis, of peri-meno, of menopause...because knowledge is power.

without knowledge and awareness, the vaginal mesh scandal would not have come to light - I imagine that was women sharing their horrific experiences and realising that what they were experiencing was not normal, and just something "to put with".

The horrific scandal of symphysiotomy in Ireland was whitewashed for years, but those women needed to have their stories heard.

No way should women be silenced - there are plenty of positive stories too!

Of course women should share birth stories.
Giving birth is harrowing for lots of women.
If you dont want to read it then dont.

I agree, mirrivan - if, after all the facts, someone decides they would rather not have a child than take on the risks of childbirth then that's the right decision for them, and they shouldn't be left in ignorance to stop them making it. I also really don't think it would be as widespread a decision as people sometimes suggest. Go look at the infertility boards and see what people put their bodies through for the chance (sadly, sometimes the pretty slim chance) of a baby. The idea that the human race would die out as women opted out en masse just doesn't seem realistic - some people might, but for many others the urge for a child is far too strong.

(However, I do disagree with the person upthread who said that women who don't want to risk a traumatic birth could adopt or foster instead. They're very different ways of parenting that you have to want to do for their own sake, not as an 'easier' alternative to pregnancy and childbirth)

I wasn't on MN before I had DC1, but the birth stories I'd picked up IRL and most importantly from my family were very important.

It gave me the courage to call a stop to an induction that was clearly going wrong and demand an EMCS.

The knowledge that my best interests weren't the sole concern of the medical professionals, they had a separate agenda about how the birth of my son should go, was actually very useful.

I wasn't on MN before I had DC1, but the birth stories I'd picked up IRL and most importantly from my family were very important.

It gave me the courage to call a stop to an induction that was clearly going wrong and demand an EMCS.

The knowledge that my best interests weren't the sole concern of the medical professionals, they had a separate agenda about how the birth of my son should go, was actually very useful.

There is nothing wrong with women sharing experiences.

What is wrong is people telling women not to talk about their experiences online where people have a choice to look for and read or avoid completely.

To be able to talk to others who have been through the same is important.

To be able to ask for advice from people with experience, in any other context is the norm.

So why is it not ok to ask advice from other women and their experiences of child birth?

for the record I had two uncomplicated births. But looking back, I was was in a state of shock after my first. A few hours after the birth a midwife asked me how I thought it went and would I be happy to recommend no drugs natural birth to other first time mums? my reply was out my mouth before I even realised I'd opened it. "Jesus Christ no! that was horrible! the worst thing I've every done!" unfortunately not the answer she was hoping for. if she asked me a couple of months after she may have got different respond. But as I said I think I and my body were in shock. I had prepared myself as much as I could mentally and physically for what was to come I knew it was going to painful and hard, still didn't stop the shock though.

I had two births that were traumatic for different reasons. The first was traumatic for medical reasons. I will share those with someone if they ask, but as its a fairly unlikely scenario the bit most people get is a comment on how long it takes to sew you up after a c-section (they never show that bit on TV) and how ridiculous it was the midwives/nurses kept asking if I wanted to hold the baby while still in theatre and physically unable to hold him anyway.

Second birth I tell everyone who I know who is pregnant about - I was left in labour ward for hours with no checks made, and no food or water. I tell everyone postnatal care is often appalling (they knew I was there and alone with new baby after instrumental delivery with too much blood loss and still all wired up, but the midwife responsible for me said she was too busy with paperwork to check on me. I couldn't even reach the buzzer.) So I tell everyone to make every effort to have someone there with them every minute they are allowed because being abandoned in a hospital after birth is terrifying.

I was reading this in the papers.

There was a lot of talk of "horror stories".
When in fact they mean "true stories about women's birth experiences".
It's interesting that the truth is being framed in this way, there was an implication that women were lying as well, or exaggerating, this is from a midwife! WTF.

Society is still very squeamish and unhappy about women being open about teh biology, tehir problems, their pain. We are supposed to breeze through pregnancy, gloss over childbirth and not mention it and then float around on a cloud of joy with a permanent smile on after the birth.

The FACTS of mental health probs, injury, PTSD, tears, things goen wrong etc are supposed to be kept quiet. Why? Why shoudl women keep quiet and suffer in silence? Fuck that.

100 per cent agree with this. Apart from the easy, straight-forward care, I didn't find the midwives I encountered very good. My husband was better. They were all about silencing me when I voiced my concerns during labour and ended up endangering me and my child in the process. Thankfully I'm under consultant care next time due to the complications they ignored last time.
I don't respect their professional body and their 'voice' in the media but I appreciate that others may have positive experiences. Good for them but they could easily have had a difficult birth or could have one in future so stop silencing other women.
And lots of women I know who did have a great birth then ended up with some problem after birth regarding PND, breastfeeding or reflux non sleepers. No one seems to escape the whole thing unscathed because it's difficult and we need to share this.

I was scared before I gave birth for the first time. Really scared. Not because of 'horror stories' (I don't like that term anyway as it implies women are making things up or exaggerating with the intent to frighten or shock).

Because I knew that childbirth is a dangerous time for a woman and for the baby being born, and I knew that I was not in control of the outcome in any meaningful way. I also knew it would hurt a lot and it was a brand new experience so I couldn't really imagine how it would feel.

I think perhaps the biggest factor was the fear of the unknown, as the second time I was more resigned and didn't feel the same sort of fear. That time I also was 100% sure of what I wanted to do re pain relief and didn't bother with waiting around to see how much I could stand first. So I felt a little more in control of that part of it, at least. And the first one had gone fairly smoothly overall.

I think it would be really weird if women weren't frightened of childbirth, to be honest. And sharing stories of our experiences is the most natural thing in the world, whether we had relatively good experiences or awful, traumatising experiences. The only problem with the internet is that it tends to emphasise the really bad experiences because fewer women who had straightforward births will join in with their stories.

It's interesting that the truth is being framed in this way, there was an implication that women were lying as well, or exaggerating, this is from a midwife!

Snap, sorry for repeating your point, I hadn't read your post!